When is a purchase a purchase?

[Mondooker]

I recently read a thread on another forum I thought was interesting. It’s seems this guys orders a fifth wheel, it comes in, a PDI is performed and as normal, some items needed fixing. As the story unfolds he gets a loan, signs all the paperwork and leaves the dealership. Awaiting the Coach to be shipped to him once the PDI items are done. Now two weeks have passed and some things on the PDI list are not completed due to things needed from the manufacturer. He hopes to get the Coach next week but wonders if things would have worked better if he hadn’t already signed the paperwork?

After reading this I wondered when in fact is the Coach his? A friend of mine was a GM for a Cadillac dealer. He said he owns the car until it’s driven off the lot. The guy above didn’t say anything about not wanting the Coach. But when is the Coach actually his? When he signed the papers or when he takes delivery?

[dedmiston]

Mondooker wrote:
Ok, I can add a little context here. He purchased a Jayco Pinnacle and a friend of his is in management there. Due to that he felt comfortable feeling things will go well. Apparently the dealer did the PDI’s they could do. Others required things shipped from Jayco like two bay doors (have no idea what’s up with that) and something else that had to come from Jayco.

I guess that makes a little more sense. But I think id still rather sign when everything is done. But we may not know all the specifics. .

I do appreciate your input on the legal part of things.

I don't know if it varies by region (maybe different state laws), but in California for cars and RVs you write up a "due bill" signed by both parties and it lists out all of the items the dealer needs to perform as part of the sale. This isn't warranty service, it's a condition of the sale.

Getting the dealer to do the work quickly is another matter though.

[dedmiston]

It's not "yours" until you sign the paperwork and pull off the lot. You aren't making payments, your insurance isn't in effect, etc.

Since you already have a contract in place to make it yours eventually, they can't sell it out from under you. (Contract = Offer + Acceptance + Consideration)

[Mondooker]

Ok, I can add a little context here. He purchased a Jayco Pinnacle and a friend of his is in management there. Due to that he felt comfortable feeling things will go well. Apparently the dealer did the PDI’s they could do. Others required things shipped from Jayco like two bay doors (have no idea what’s up with that) and something else that had to come from Jayco.

I guess that makes a little more sense. But I think id still rather sign when everything is done. But we may not know all the specifics. .

I do appreciate your input on the legal part of things.

[ford_truck_guy]

Lantley wrote:

bucky wrote:
You are not going to pressure the bank, the payments will become due regardless.

The payments will come due in time nce paperwork is completed, However without a signature there is no deal/agreement with the bank or anyone else.

The OP stated that the buyer DID SIGN ALL PAPERWORK...

He took the loan, signed the papers, completed everything.. IN MY EYES, the unit is now HIS and no longer the dealerships...

IF that is/was the case, the upper hand is now the dealers and if he is a shady dealer, he has no pressure to complete...

I will say this.. my best friend purchased a new Grand Design Solitude 16 hours from home.... He paid in FULL, and we went tp pick it up 2 months later. I told him he was CRAZY.. Lazy Days in Murfreesboro were awesome to deal with..... The PDI was done when we got there, they completed everything, even stayed late on Friday to complete as they knew we needed to get on the road early Saturday.. all items were addressed, and it was a really good experience for them...

They were lucky

[Lantley]

bucky wrote:
You are not going to pressure the bank, the payments will become due regardless.

The payments will come due in time nce paperwork is completed, However without a signature there is no deal/agreement with the bank or anyone else.

[guidry]

way2roll wrote:
Once he signed the paperwork the bank took ownership of the title and he owns it. He should have never signed before the PDI was done. Now the dealership has no real incentive to get it done quickly. I personally never finalize the paperwork until everything is done for me to take possession of the RV - or anything for that matter. House punch outs, Cars, RV's, whatever. Once you sign you have absolutely no leverage to have anything done without a civil suit or warranty claim.

This is correct. If the guy would've waited to sign the paperwork until the items were repaired, the dealership would've gotten parts off another rig on the lot and made all the repairs quickly in order to get paid.

[bucky]

You are not going to pressure the bank, the payments will become due regardless.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

🙂 Hi, I don't know about Florida, but in California, It is not yours until you drive it off of the lot. Meaning that you have not taken delivery. When I bought my Lincoln (used) I gave the dealer a list of things that needed attention. The salesman told me to drive it around the block and leave it in the service drive for the repairs. I told him that I would only drive it after all of the repairs were done. He so badly wanted me to drive it off of the lot, but I knew better.

[rhagfo]

Lantley wrote:

chiefneon wrote:
Howdy!

Never ever sign the papers until all work is completed to your satisfaction. That is the only way you can get the dealership to complete the work needed in a timely matter. Do you think the dealership would let you drive away under the promise you would comeback later to sign the paperwork? NO.

“Happy Trails”
Chiefneon

I think by signing the unit is then funded. We can debate who owns the unit. Who is in posssesion etc. but by signing the dealer gets paid.
At that popint the dealer has little incentive to expedite things.
Now if there is no signature and the bank does not fund(pay) the unit.
The dealer has a lot of incentive to take care of things and get his money.
A unpaid for unit sitting on the dealers lot is a much bigger concern for the dealer than a fully paid for unit.
Repairs and PDI issues are secondary to the dealer getting paid.
If the buyer and PDI are delaying funding you can bet you will have the dealer's full attention and full effort to get the issues resolved in order for the dealer to get paid.

This is so true, the dealership will pressure you to sign papers ASAP. We bought a used unit from CW at a location 250 miles away. We wrote an ernest money agreement on I believe Monday, with agreement to hold the unit until Saturday when we could go and do PDI. They wanted us to sign the sales agreement on that Monday, told them not signing until we had inspected!

[Walaby]

Purchaser owns it.

When he signed the paperwork, he took delivery.. even if he didn't drive it off the lot.

Willing to bet the dealership doesn't have it on their books anymore. VIN will point to a delivery with individuals name and it is now in custody of service department, not part of inventory or part of sales department.

Mike

[Lantley]

chiefneon wrote:
Howdy!

Never ever sign the papers until all work is completed to your satisfaction. That is the only way you can get the dealership to complete the work needed in a timely matter. Do you think the dealership would let you drive away under the promise you would comeback later to sign the paperwork? NO.

“Happy Trails”
Chiefneon

I think by signing the unit is then funded. We can debate who owns the unit. Who is in posssesion etc. but by signing the dealer gets paid.
At that popint the dealer has little incentive to expedite things.
Now if there is no signature and the bank does not fund(pay) the unit.
The dealer has a lot of incentive to take care of things and get his money.
A unpaid for unit sitting on the dealers lot is a much bigger concern for the dealer than a fully paid for unit.
Repairs and PDI issues are secondary to the dealer getting paid.
If the buyer and PDI are delaying funding you can bet you will have the dealer's full attention and full effort to get the issues resolved in order for the dealer to get paid.

[valhalla360]

There's always going to be a bit of a gray area...even if it's just signing the paperwork in the office (at which point it's yours) and then walking out to the lot.

It would be best to add a clause to the purchase as to the time it will take to make the repairs after the PDI with the option that you can cancel the sale at no cost if they aren't completed by the date in question.

Now given the current conditions, the dealer may baulk as there may be legitimate supply issues, plus if sales are going well, there may be little incentive to take the risk they will miss the due date. In a time when sales are slow, they may be more willing to play along as the salesman needs the sale.

[Mondooker]

Yah I don’t know why he signed and then not take ownership. I posed these question to a paralegal friend of mine. She said it would be an interesting case if the coach was delivered and it wasn’t right. And the guy refused to take delivery by refusing to sign for it.

The guy didn’t say anything about the legal aspect. It was just interesting to me because stuff happens even in the best of circumstances.

[USAFBILL]

He purchased an item but never took delivery of the item.....was he ever given the the keys and even given the opportunity to take delivery? Could be interesting in a civil court before a judge. Good luck

[chiefneon]

Howdy!

Never ever sign the papers until all work is completed to your satisfaction. That is the only way you can get the dealership to complete the work needed in a timely matter. Do you think the dealership would let you drive away under the promise you would comeback later to sign the paperwork? NO.

“Happy Trails”
Chiefneon