WW Repairs
As just about all of us have read here, certain models of WW trailers have defects that have resulted in a number of different problems. To one degree or another, this subject has come up on this for...
Forum Discussion
More thoughts on loading and tires. I also included info that can be used if you protest the settlement, deal with WW, or go it with a private attorney.
1. Trailers half to have relatively equal weight on all axles, or loads on one may be excessive and result in failure. Especially the tires.
2. If I level my trailer on flat ground, and there is equal weight on all axles, my trailer is properly loaded-as long as it's not over max gross weight. 40/60, I don't know. This why the 15%ish tongue weight will work. Individual trailers may have to be adjusted up or down a little for maximum stability.
3. The last time I was on the weigh scale, I grossed exactly 12,000lbs., with 1550lbs on the tongue. That's 13% of gross. However, my front axle was carrying much more weight than the rear and my trailer body was tilting down just a little because I had upgraded to heavier E-rated tires, which were slightly taller than the 15 inch stock ones (1 inch in diameter, 1/2" taller). Hitch was still set at the old tire height. I couldn't get the axles weighted evenly unless I raised the trailer to a very high nose up attitude. Then the tongue was light. I shifted as much weight forward as I could, but couldn't make it stable.
I upgraded my original tires because they disintegrated at about 8000 miles. I thought the new tires and wheels would fix the stability problem. Wrong. My trailer that towed like an arrow when new is still not safe to tow above 50-60mph depending on wind, trucks... It did improve with the new tires, but is still unstable to tow, and as stated, I can't adjust it out. Even though the trailer hasn't physically failed, it is still unsafe because of the stability issue. I'm not going 2400 miles to let the Perris facility install what Raphael called a gusset when he talked to me. Plus the drive would would be risky, and would probably ruin the tires.
Reflecting on this, my tiny little brain came up with some thoughts.
1. My axle center line may not be correct.
2. The axles are installed so that when the trailer is level, the axles are actually spring loaded to the front, overloading the front axle and making the rear light.
3. Something to do with a bent frame. I know the tongue bends up from the frame rail they curved to make the triangle. I checked it with a bubble guage. It was maxed. Plus you can see it. I should have figured it out before the class action paperwork tipped me off. I had already begun to shorten the chain on my weight distribution bars in an effort to transfer weight. That should have set off warning bells, but I just figured the bars were losing their strength. Wrong.
4. Loading is not correct due to one or more of the above.
My thoughts.
*** The tongue is bent upwards This increases the load on the front axles when the trailer body is set level. It makes the weight distribution bars less effective. Deformation also makes the frame even weaker.
*** Had my tongue not been bent, the trailer body would have been tilted up instead of being level, which would have shifted the load towards the rear axle, helping to balance the trailer, but also reducing my tongue weight. Remember the seesaw guy?
I experimented with loads at the weigh station when it was new. Very hard to get down to 11%. Need empty tanks, and really abusive rear loading. It needs more to tow properly. I don't think you could even achieve that with any kind of typical loading.
With a straight tongue, its weight would have been close to 11%, as the balance would have been shifted aft, partially unloading the tongue. Remember the guy moving around on the seesaw?
Hopefully when the tongue is straight, the axle loads will be equal when the trailer is level. If not, I believe it's because the springs supporting the suspension are installed in a tilted fashion that loads the front axles more than the rear. Not good.
If the trailer is level and the axles weighted correctly, I can change tongue weight without changinging the axle balance. The hitch will pick up or lose the extra weight, and the now functioning weight distribution bars will adjust the axle loading of the truck accordingly.
Now the trailer can be adjusted to tow well, regardless of weight (below max gross). All that needs to be done is to set the hitch so the trailer is level and adjust the tongue weight until it tows straight and true.
If I add more weight, I lower the hitch a little and adjust tongue weight. If I decrease my weight, it's the opposite.
Tire problems:
Tire load rating is based on the number of plies and the heat a tire can stand before the plies delaminate. This can happen without any visual clues. That's how a blowout can occur even when the tire appears new. The tire probably wasn't defective. It was just insufficient for the heat it generated.
Tire manufacturers can use better construction/materials, or put a speed restriction on the tire to control the heat. Higher speeds=higher heat. Check out a NASCAR race and listen to tire comments.
Many trailer tires have an ST right behind the size (my stock WW tires, for example.) That limits them to 65mph which limits the heat the tire can be subjected to.
From all my research I've reached the opinion that an ST rated tire is cheaply built-seriously. Either less plies or lessor construction materials. Tires without the ST have to be safe at speeds over 100mph. In other words, they can handle more heat, or don't get as hot. It's federal law. I believe they do it to provide a safety margin for drivers traveling at regular speeds.
I'm OK with 65 if it's a bias ply trailer tire. The bias design makes them run hotter, and there is only so much you can do to support a load and shed heat, while still maintaining an acceptable cost for those. Again, too much heat makes tires fail, even racing tires.
IMHO, Weekend Warrior used tire and wheel combos that were inadequate for real life. They did not provide enough margin of safety to adequately account for hot desert freeway driving, high national speed limits, and trailer loading that isn't perfect, but is within limits. If an axle gets weighted so that tires are near their load limit, those tires will run hotter.
Remember. If you have enough plies to handle the load, and they're correctly built, then only excess temperature will cause them to delaminate (or they are too many years old and the laminating material is failing). Conditions that generate extra heat have to be taken into consideration. I'm sure the tires were rated at some standard temperature, and not worst case. Cheaper tires at same rating equals more margin of profit.
Your engine will do the same thing. If the cooling system can't handle the heat, it will boil over. Keep driving and you'll destroy your engine in short time.
I replaced my stock D rated 15" wheels and tires with 16" wheels and E-rated Michelin Ribs. They have ten plies, several steel belted, at least one of which is in the sidewall. They're rated for the over 100mph speed. I'm sick of changing flats on crowded freeways. I'm lucky I haven't crashed or been been hit by a car.
I researched tires and found nothing in 15" that is E-rated. Even if I had, I doubt the wheels on my trailer are rated for 80psi. That's right. Not all rims will safely hold 80psi. I found that out when I was talking to a local tire guy.
I urge all WW owners to do the following. Write a settlement protest letter to the class action lawsuit group about these concerns. I don't think it matters whether or not you have joined the suit. We need compensation to step up to new rims and tires instead of just $100 each for every tire that blew out, up to a maximum of six.
Some of you might only be able to step from a C to a D rating because larger sizes won't fit. Wasn't a factor on mine. I find it hard to believe that all seven of my tires failed almost simultaneously. There has to be a problem.
The Tire Rack has tons of information on this topic if you want to research.
There is also a fair settlement hearing in Orange county on Feb 22. If you can make it, please relate this and whatever else you've got.
I talked to one of the lawyers in the suit. He was very smart, but did not know much about trailering. I even helped explain trailer basics, pointed him to his owner's manual, talked about weight ratings... because he wanted to start towing behind his mid-sized SUV. It's the first time for him. If we don't educate the lawyers, they can't help. Right now, settlement payments can be changed.
I also think we should be given a lifetime transferable warranty on the fix if it fails from regular use. Without it our trailers will lose a lot of resale value, and be much harder to sell. Many wouldn't even call to check it out.
If you have more info we can use, please post, and if I made some mistakes, feel free to point them out. I will not be offended. This forum is for proper discourse of ideas, whether or not we agree with each other. I may have stated an opinion as fact, or a fact as an opinion. I'm not the world's best writer.
By the way, sorry for all the errors in the last post. I had just jammed some fingers and things weren't going well on the keyboard.
Jeff
1. Trailers half to have relatively equal weight on all axles, or loads on one may be excessive and result in failure. Especially the tires.
2. If I level my trailer on flat ground, and there is equal weight on all axles, my trailer is properly loaded-as long as it's not over max gross weight. 40/60, I don't know. This why the 15%ish tongue weight will work. Individual trailers may have to be adjusted up or down a little for maximum stability.
3. The last time I was on the weigh scale, I grossed exactly 12,000lbs., with 1550lbs on the tongue. That's 13% of gross. However, my front axle was carrying much more weight than the rear and my trailer body was tilting down just a little because I had upgraded to heavier E-rated tires, which were slightly taller than the 15 inch stock ones (1 inch in diameter, 1/2" taller). Hitch was still set at the old tire height. I couldn't get the axles weighted evenly unless I raised the trailer to a very high nose up attitude. Then the tongue was light. I shifted as much weight forward as I could, but couldn't make it stable.
I upgraded my original tires because they disintegrated at about 8000 miles. I thought the new tires and wheels would fix the stability problem. Wrong. My trailer that towed like an arrow when new is still not safe to tow above 50-60mph depending on wind, trucks... It did improve with the new tires, but is still unstable to tow, and as stated, I can't adjust it out. Even though the trailer hasn't physically failed, it is still unsafe because of the stability issue. I'm not going 2400 miles to let the Perris facility install what Raphael called a gusset when he talked to me. Plus the drive would would be risky, and would probably ruin the tires.
Reflecting on this, my tiny little brain came up with some thoughts.
1. My axle center line may not be correct.
2. The axles are installed so that when the trailer is level, the axles are actually spring loaded to the front, overloading the front axle and making the rear light.
3. Something to do with a bent frame. I know the tongue bends up from the frame rail they curved to make the triangle. I checked it with a bubble guage. It was maxed. Plus you can see it. I should have figured it out before the class action paperwork tipped me off. I had already begun to shorten the chain on my weight distribution bars in an effort to transfer weight. That should have set off warning bells, but I just figured the bars were losing their strength. Wrong.
4. Loading is not correct due to one or more of the above.
My thoughts.
*** The tongue is bent upwards This increases the load on the front axles when the trailer body is set level. It makes the weight distribution bars less effective. Deformation also makes the frame even weaker.
*** Had my tongue not been bent, the trailer body would have been tilted up instead of being level, which would have shifted the load towards the rear axle, helping to balance the trailer, but also reducing my tongue weight. Remember the seesaw guy?
I experimented with loads at the weigh station when it was new. Very hard to get down to 11%. Need empty tanks, and really abusive rear loading. It needs more to tow properly. I don't think you could even achieve that with any kind of typical loading.
With a straight tongue, its weight would have been close to 11%, as the balance would have been shifted aft, partially unloading the tongue. Remember the guy moving around on the seesaw?
Hopefully when the tongue is straight, the axle loads will be equal when the trailer is level. If not, I believe it's because the springs supporting the suspension are installed in a tilted fashion that loads the front axles more than the rear. Not good.
If the trailer is level and the axles weighted correctly, I can change tongue weight without changinging the axle balance. The hitch will pick up or lose the extra weight, and the now functioning weight distribution bars will adjust the axle loading of the truck accordingly.
Now the trailer can be adjusted to tow well, regardless of weight (below max gross). All that needs to be done is to set the hitch so the trailer is level and adjust the tongue weight until it tows straight and true.
If I add more weight, I lower the hitch a little and adjust tongue weight. If I decrease my weight, it's the opposite.
Tire problems:
Tire load rating is based on the number of plies and the heat a tire can stand before the plies delaminate. This can happen without any visual clues. That's how a blowout can occur even when the tire appears new. The tire probably wasn't defective. It was just insufficient for the heat it generated.
Tire manufacturers can use better construction/materials, or put a speed restriction on the tire to control the heat. Higher speeds=higher heat. Check out a NASCAR race and listen to tire comments.
Many trailer tires have an ST right behind the size (my stock WW tires, for example.) That limits them to 65mph which limits the heat the tire can be subjected to.
From all my research I've reached the opinion that an ST rated tire is cheaply built-seriously. Either less plies or lessor construction materials. Tires without the ST have to be safe at speeds over 100mph. In other words, they can handle more heat, or don't get as hot. It's federal law. I believe they do it to provide a safety margin for drivers traveling at regular speeds.
I'm OK with 65 if it's a bias ply trailer tire. The bias design makes them run hotter, and there is only so much you can do to support a load and shed heat, while still maintaining an acceptable cost for those. Again, too much heat makes tires fail, even racing tires.
IMHO, Weekend Warrior used tire and wheel combos that were inadequate for real life. They did not provide enough margin of safety to adequately account for hot desert freeway driving, high national speed limits, and trailer loading that isn't perfect, but is within limits. If an axle gets weighted so that tires are near their load limit, those tires will run hotter.
Remember. If you have enough plies to handle the load, and they're correctly built, then only excess temperature will cause them to delaminate (or they are too many years old and the laminating material is failing). Conditions that generate extra heat have to be taken into consideration. I'm sure the tires were rated at some standard temperature, and not worst case. Cheaper tires at same rating equals more margin of profit.
Your engine will do the same thing. If the cooling system can't handle the heat, it will boil over. Keep driving and you'll destroy your engine in short time.
I replaced my stock D rated 15" wheels and tires with 16" wheels and E-rated Michelin Ribs. They have ten plies, several steel belted, at least one of which is in the sidewall. They're rated for the over 100mph speed. I'm sick of changing flats on crowded freeways. I'm lucky I haven't crashed or been been hit by a car.
I researched tires and found nothing in 15" that is E-rated. Even if I had, I doubt the wheels on my trailer are rated for 80psi. That's right. Not all rims will safely hold 80psi. I found that out when I was talking to a local tire guy.
I urge all WW owners to do the following. Write a settlement protest letter to the class action lawsuit group about these concerns. I don't think it matters whether or not you have joined the suit. We need compensation to step up to new rims and tires instead of just $100 each for every tire that blew out, up to a maximum of six.
Some of you might only be able to step from a C to a D rating because larger sizes won't fit. Wasn't a factor on mine. I find it hard to believe that all seven of my tires failed almost simultaneously. There has to be a problem.
The Tire Rack has tons of information on this topic if you want to research.
There is also a fair settlement hearing in Orange county on Feb 22. If you can make it, please relate this and whatever else you've got.
I talked to one of the lawyers in the suit. He was very smart, but did not know much about trailering. I even helped explain trailer basics, pointed him to his owner's manual, talked about weight ratings... because he wanted to start towing behind his mid-sized SUV. It's the first time for him. If we don't educate the lawyers, they can't help. Right now, settlement payments can be changed.
I also think we should be given a lifetime transferable warranty on the fix if it fails from regular use. Without it our trailers will lose a lot of resale value, and be much harder to sell. Many wouldn't even call to check it out.
If you have more info we can use, please post, and if I made some mistakes, feel free to point them out. I will not be offended. This forum is for proper discourse of ideas, whether or not we agree with each other. I may have stated an opinion as fact, or a fact as an opinion. I'm not the world's best writer.
By the way, sorry for all the errors in the last post. I had just jammed some fingers and things weren't going well on the keyboard.
Jeff
