Land border closed to Canada

[MPI_Mallard]

We open our land border to the U.S. to "non-essential" visitors so they can look after their owned property here in Canada but we can't do the same for our owned property we own in the U.S.,, sure we can fly over but we can't drive across in our RV's and other than protecting the airline industry I simply can't see how it's safer to stuff a couple of hundred people into a aluminum tube with a closed ventilation system opposed to me and my wife going through your border in our truck and driving down to Florida?? I actually sent an E-Mail to Biden reminding him on how we share the longest border in the world and we are the only people that go to the U.S. with money, health insurance and leave when we're supposed to not to mention that Canadians own over $15 billion worth of property in Florida alone and spend around $5 billion a year while we're there! I'm seriously considering selling my RV lot, let's see how long this post stays up,,

[olfarmer]

I think that people should be vaccinated going both ways, other than that just open the north border!

[pawatt]

From KRGV News Oct 12, 2021.
WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. will reopen its land borders to nonessential travel next month, ending a 19-month freeze due to the COVID-19 pandemic as the country moves to require all international visitors to be vaccinated against the coronavirus.

Vehicle, rail and ferry travel between the U.S. and Canada and Mexico has been largely restricted to essential travel, such as trade, since the earliest days of the pandemic. The new rules, to be announced Wednesday, will allow fully vaccinated foreign nationals to enter the U.S. regardless of the reason for travel starting in early November, when a similar easing of restrictions is set to kick in for air travel into the country. By mid-January, even essential travelers seeking to enter the U.S., like truck drivers, will need to be fully vaccinated.

Senior administration officials previewed the new policy late Tuesday on the condition of anonymity to speak ahead of the formal announcement.

Both Mexico and Canada have pressed the U.S. for months to ease restrictions on travel that have separated families and curtailed leisure trips since the onset of the pandemic. The latest move follows last month's announcement that the U.S. will end country-based travel bans for air travel, and instead require vaccination for foreign nationals seeking to enter by plane.

Both policies will take effect in early November, the officials said. They did not specify a particular date.

The new rules only apply to legal entry to the U.S. Officials cautioned that those seeking to enter illegally will still be subject to expulsion under so-called Title 42 authority, first invoked by former President Donald Trump, that has drawn criticism from immigration advocates for swiftly removing migrants before they can seek asylum. One of the officials said the U.S. was continuing the policy because cramped conditions in border patrol facilities pose a COVID-19 threat.

According to the officials, travelers entering the U.S. by vehicle, rail and ferry will be asked about their vaccination status as part of the standard U.S. Customs and Border Protection admissions process. At officers' discretion, travelers will have their proof of vaccination verified in a secondary screening process.

Unlike air travel, for which proof of a negative COVID-19 test is required before boarding a flight to enter the U.S., no testing will be required to enter the U.S. by land or sea, provided the travelers meet the vaccination requirement.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the U.S. will accept travelers who have been fully vaccinated with any of the vaccines approved for emergency use by the World Health Organization, not just those in use in the U.S. That means that the AstraZeneca vaccine, widely used in Canada, will be accepted.

Officials said the CDC was still working to formalize procedures for admitting those who received doses of two different vaccines, as was fairly common in Canada.

The delay in the vaccination requirement for essential cross-border travel is meant to provide truck drivers and others with additional time to get a shot and minimize potential economic disruption from the vaccination mandate, officials said.

All told, the new procedures move toward a policy based on the risk profiles of individuals, rather than less targeted country-based bans.

The vaccination requirement for foreign nationals comes as the White House has moved to impose sweeping vaccination-or-testing requirements affecting as many as 100 million people in the U.S. in an effort to encourage holdouts to get shots.

On Tuesday, the U.S. Department of Labor completed the initial draft of an emergency regulation that will require employers of 100 workers or more to demand their employees be vaccinated against COVID-19 or tested weekly. The Office of Management and Budget is now reviewing the order before its implementation.

Mexico has not put in place any COVID-19 entry procedures for travelers. Canada allows entry of fully-vaccinated individuals with proof of vaccination against COVID-19 as well as proof of a negative test conducted within 72 hours of entry to the country.

[JaxDad]

moisheh wrote:
Thre is no reason for commercial traffic to interfere with tourist traffic. Although every border crossing is different the lanes are usually apart. BC does have some crazy setups. Most times there is clear signage directing vehicle traffic away from commercial lanes.

When driving a semi I have never interfered with any tourist traffic and vice versa.

I have read that the US has been working on an app.

I think you missed my point re: traffic jams, yes there are separate commercial / passenger traffic AT the border, if traffic is backed up on the highways leading TO the border the trucks are stuck too. There are not separate routes for the trucks to get there.

The widely accepted speculation in the aviation industry is that the US border crossing app is exactly what the border opening is being held back pending. Based on comments made by the US government that is not likely to happen until we’ll past year end.

[moisheh]

Thre is no reason for commercial traffic to interfere with tourist traffic. Although every border crossing is different the lanes are usually apart. BC does have some crazy setups. Most times there is clear signage directing vehicle traffic away from commercial lanes. When driving a semi I have never interfered with any tourist traffic and vice versa. However there may be manpower problems. I have noticed that since the border closings the truck lanes are not all lanes are open. Often only one or two are manned creating longer lines. Much of the staff has quit and many were transferred to the US Southern border. At times they appear to be working to rule. In the USA working the border is not a high paying job. Hard to get good employees. But if the USA had an app like Canada's there should be no hold up. When you arrive at the booth your license plate should bring up all your info. Or maybe with your vax card or passport. The computer would display all your vax inf, the names of all passengers and your destination. A few short questions and you would be good to go. I have read that the US has been working on an app.

[VE3ESN]

I'm not suggesting that snowbirds should use the "services" described in this ARTICLE FROM THE CBC. I'm posting it purely for information.

I do see the points raised by many of the posters. However, JaxDad makes a very good case that commercial traffic would be severely impacted by allowing non-essential land-border crossings to the US by Canadians. Trade between our two counties is obviously extremely important, especially during these rather difficult economic times.

As for us, we used to enjoy taking our Roadtrek down south during the colder months, but because of the "bizarre" (to put it mildly) political situation in the States, we really don't feel comfortable traveling there. We recently closed our US dollar credit card, due to not using it. Why pay a yearly fee for something you can't, or don't want to use?

[JaxDad]

moisheh wrote:
I really doubt it has anything to do with handling the tourists at the border. I drive long haul in the summer and our crossings are always slower than a tourist..

Logic does not apply!!

Border crossing stats are published and easily accessible.

To just randomly pick one crossing, Queenston / Lewiston in the Niagara Falls / Buffalo area, and pre-Covid tourist season, of August 2019.

There were 178,669 US bound vehicle crossings, of that number, 34,864, or less than 20% of those vehicles were commercial trucks.

So for every truck that crosses, there are more than 5 passenger vehicles.

Statistics also show that the average time for a passenger vehicle is under 30 seconds, if passenger vehicles were slowed to even only 2 minutes average clearing time it would effectively quadruple that 80% of the traffic.

I’ve been in traffic jams of 4+ hours because an accident blocked one of two lanes leading to the border crossing.

Anything short of an almost complete to ‘normal’ would create such chaos that even essential traffic would be paralyzed.

[BarbaraOK]

moisheh wrote:
I really doubt it has anything to do with handling the tourists at the border. I drive long haul in the summer and our crossings are always slower than a tourist. There is paperwork that has to be examined and sometimes have to use a credit card to pay for the crossing. Rarely do you spend more than 10 minutes at the booth. They read the truck plate and all your data comes up on the computer screen. Tourists entering Canada are not held up as we have an app where all the Covid test data is uploaded before you reach the border. The USA has been working on a similar app. BarbaraOK: Traveling in an airplane is certainly more risky than driving. Crowded airport lines as well as being squeezed into a shuttle van. Besides Canadians would be double vaccinated unlike the millions in the USA who are unprotected. Imagine a plane load of Texans or Floridians visiting your state! I am convinced it is political. Every border state official ( mayors, Governors, Congressmen and senators have been applying pressure on the administration to no avail. The scientists have stated that the Canadians pose no risk. Certainly allowing visitors from India and some almost 3rd world countries pose a much larger risk. Logic does not apply!!

I'm not saying the decision on not to admit was based on logic. The problem is that the US is also dealing with two borders and I think there might be some language in NFTA that says what you do for one, you do for the other. The discussion on the driving I saw was the fact that they assumed that those coming across driving would be stopping at restaurants all the way to their destination as well as using motels, etc. The idea of RVers being self-contained does not compute with these people.

[moisheh]

I really doubt it has anything to do with handling the tourists at the border. I drive long haul in the summer and our crossings are always slower than a tourist. There is paperwork that has to be examined and sometimes have to use a credit card to pay for the crossing. Rarely do you spend more than 10 minutes at the booth. They read the truck plate and all your data comes up on the computer screen. Tourists entering Canada are not held up as we have an app where all the Covid test data is uploaded before you reach the border. The USA has been working on a similar app. BarbaraOK: Traveling in an airplane is certainly more risky than driving. Crowded airport lines as well as being squeezed into a shuttle van. Besides Canadians would be double vaccinated unlike the millions in the USA who are unprotected. Imagine a plane load of Texans or Floridians visiting your state! I am convinced it is political. Every border state official ( mayors, Governors, Congressmen and senators have been applying pressure on the administration to no avail. The scientists have stated that the Canadians pose no risk. Certainly allowing visitors from India and some almost 3rd world countries pose a much larger risk. Logic does not apply!!

[BarbaraOK]

The original rationale was that if flying, you get to your destination and then quartile for 2 weeks and if you are carrying the virus, the physical area in which you have contact is limited. In contrast, drive across the border, you are stopping every night (and remember, this is originally projected as people in CARS, not RVs) in a different place, going into restaurants along the way, so that you might spread the virus in several states as you wander to your destination. Yes, things are different now, but also Canada only has one border they are having to deal with, we also have 2, so that adds another layer of complexity. Not saying I agree with what they have in place, because I don't, but that is how it came about.

[JaxDad]

MPI_Mallard wrote:
We open our land border to the U.S. to "non-essential" visitors so they can look after their owned property here in Canada but we can't do the same for our owned property we own in the U.S.,, sure we can fly over but we can't drive across in our RV's and other than protecting the airline industry I simply can't see how it's safer to stuff a couple of hundred people into a aluminum tube with a closed ventilation system opposed to me and my wife going through your border in our truck and driving down to Florida??

As someone in both the aviation industry and an avid RV’er I can tell you, the reasons are absolutely logical.

Actually it’s almost more logistical than logical.

People being at an airport, distant from the border, with lots of parking, seating, washrooms, food concessions, etc, etc, several hours before their flight is normal. There is ample time, space and staff for vetting travellers.

I’m sure everyone here has crossed the border during a busy time and had a short wait.

Now imagine what a disaster it would be if all of a sudden every land crossing (with no food, water, washrooms) was backed up due to far greater scrutiny, trying turn inadmissible travellers around, secondary jammed with clearing up paperwork SNAFU’s, etc, etc.

It would be a nightmare, very likely also affecting the very required truck traffic.

[moisheh]

This subject has been discussed at length by politicians on both sides. Logic does not apply. One thought was that the President has a full plate right now and does not need any controversy. Another person responded" that means the border won't open until after the mid terms" Of course that comment was in jest.

[MikeDupont]

Whatever it is, its a lot closer to politics than science. And BOTH sides distort the heck out of it.

[bucky]

"I actually sent an E-Mail to Biden reminding him on how we share the longest border in the world and we are the only people that go to the U.S. with money, health insurance and leave when we're supposed to."

Well said.

[magicbus]

I agree. I’m still trying to understand the science behind this since it appears CA is well ahead of the US in vaccination rate. My wife had to show proof of vaccination to attend a play last week, not sure why the same wouldn’t work at border crossings.

Dave