Mexico safety

[BillB800si]

Maybe Mexico will become safer to travel in...

Free Press news services
MEXICO
Mayor who spoke out is killed
Officials said Friday that a Mexican mayor who denounced cartel extortion has been found dead on a roadside.
Former President Felipe Calderon published tweets demanding an explanation of the death of Ygnacio Lopez Mendoza, the mayor of the town of Santa Ana Maya in western Michoacan state..
---------------------------
What’s the answer to this corrupt government in Mexico?? Read further to see……..

TEPALCATEPEC, Mexico (AP) — For lime grower Hipolito Mora, it was time to organize and pick up arms when a packing company controlled by a brutal drug cartel refused to buy his fruit. For Bishop Miguel Patino Velazquez, it was seeing civilians forced to fight back with their own guns that made him speak out. For Leticia, a lime picker too afraid of retribution to give her last name, it was the day she saw a taxi driver kidnapped in front of his two young children that convinced her to join those taking the law into their own hands.
In Mexico they call it "the drop that makes the glass overflow," and it came at different points for the people living for years in fear of the brutal Knights Templar in the western Valley of Apatzingan, an emerald green tapestry of orchards bordered by blue-gray peaks.
"We lived in bondage, threatened by organized crime," said Leticia, 40, who ekes out a living picking fruit and selling chicken on the side. "They wanted to treat people like animals."
Eight months after locals formed self-defense groups, they say they are free of the cartel in six municipalities of the Tierra Caliente, or "Hot Land," which earned its moniker for the scorching weather but whose name has also come to signify criminal activity. What's more, the self-defense group leaders, who are clearly breaking Mexican law by picking up military-style arms to fight criminals, say the federal government is no longer arresting them, but recruiting them to help federal forces identify cartel members.
The Mexican government, which over seven years has repeatedly sent troops and federal police into the area without success, has reached its own limit: an Oct. 27 attack by alleged cartel agents on power distribution plants and electrical sub-stations in 14 towns and cities that were intended to terrorize the public. At least 400,000 people were left in the dark.
Attorney General Jesus Murillo Karam arrived by helicopter to the ranch town of Tepalcatepec two days later to meet with self-defense group leaders

"The attorney general came with two army generals to speak to me and said 'We've come to help. What do you want us to do?'" said Dr. Jose Manuel Mireles, self-defense group leader in Tepacaltepec, speaking over breakfast in a grove of fat mango trees, his two-way radio crackling with movements of his patrols.
He said the government promised operations in major cities around the state. Federal security spokesman Eduardo Sanchez did not respond to several requests for comment about the government's cooperation.
On Monday, military and federal police moved into the Michoacan port of Lazaro Cardenas, a major source of cartel income due to the trafficking of drugs and precursor chemicals, as well as extortion. They dismissed 113 local police and took over security. About 40 officers were bused to Mexico City for questioning into rumors of corruption, according to one security official who wasn't authorized to speak on the record.
On Thursday, the army arrested the entire 25-officer police force of Vista Hermosa, also in northern Michoacan, a violent area where the Knights Templar are battling the New Generation, a cartel in neighboring Jalisco state.
The self-defense groups started small with just a few dozen civilians from two communities: lime pickers, ranchers and business owners who began patrolling the streets, setting up roadblocks and ambushing the Knights Templar as the drug men roamed with their heavy artillery and grand SUVs. The ragtag groups now claim several thousand members in a valley of more than 300,000 people, competing with the cartel in raw numbers if not firepower.
Despite some success in the six municipalities of Tierra Caliente, the cartel continues to enforce a stranglehold on Michoacan, a rich farming state that is a major exporter of lime, avocado and mango. On Thursday, Ygnacio López Mendoza, a Michoacan mayor who staged a hunger strike in Mexico City to seek government help, saying he was extorted by the cartel ,was found dead in his car after being taken from him home, according to a local government association.
While cartels terrorized communities all over Mexico, many say Michoacan is a case unto itself. The region has long tolerated marijuana and poppy growers, and corruption and organized crime have permeated the social, political and economic fabric of the region for years.
"Michoacan has all the characteristics of a failed state," Patino, the bishop of Apatzingan, wrote last month in an unusually candid letter naming the Knights Templar and other cartels. "Municipal governments and police are in the service or colluding with criminals, and the rumor continues to grow that the state government is also in the service of organized crime."
The archdiocese this week denied reports that the clergyman was threatened for speaking out and is in protective custody, saying he is at a pastoral retreat.
Rumors circulate that some self-defense groups have been infiltrated by the New Generation cartel, charges the groups vehemently deny. A rebel band of former Knights Templar, curiously nicknamed "Los Viagra," have also tried to use self-defense groups as cover for illegal activities, according to residents.
Self-defense leaders say they are simply ordinary citizens trying to defend themselves against unending violence because the state has proved unable to do it for them.
Mireles, the self-defense group leader, says the big trouble began 12 years ago, when the local community unwisely made a deal with a local cartel known as La Familia to oust upstarts from an even more brutal cartel, the nationally powerful Zetas. When La Familia fell apart under heavy attack from the government of former President Felipe Calderon, the faction that was left took up the name Knights Templar. Initially, the gang told people it wouldn't bother them. But then the cartel realized it could make more money from extorting local businesses than it could from selling drugs.
"They were very ambitious," said Mora, who leads the self-defense group in La Ruana. "And that was their mistake, getting involved with civilians, with honest employment. They started step-by-step to take over all of the farm production."
Mora and Mireles, who started first with recruiting and secret night meetings, said at first 95 percent of the people said no, but the movement built quickly after their first appearance on Feb. 24. They plan to continue their attacks on the cartel in other cities, despite being stopped by the military on Oct. 26 when they tried to take over Apatzingan.
They negotiated a peaceful march, unarmed, with the protection of the military. As some 3,000 entered the square, sharpshooters believed to be from the Knights Templar opened fire on the crowd from a church tower and city hall, where municipal police were standing watch. Several were injured.
Now the self-defense groups say they are working to help federal forces identify criminals in the city, and their joint efforts resulted Monday in the capture of Leopoldo Jaimes Valladares, a mid-level cartel dealer believed to control the extortion in the central lime market.
In the Valley of Apatzingan, daily life continues under the watch of military helicopters and around sandbags marking dozens of checkpoints, some by soldiers and others by self-defense groups. Fruit trucks rumble by in the heat, and school children practice their civic marches, the sounds of drumming and brass filling the dusty streets.
Outside of Apatzingan, men roam with hunting and semi-automatic assault rifles.
It's a fragile peace.

[qtla9111]

Unsolved murders in the U.S., Nearly 185,000 killings went unsolved from 1980 to 2008.

Unsolved Homicides in the U.S.

We could go back and forth all day. Like I said, it doesn't matter where you live or travel, the threat is there and it is up to you to make wise decisions. Rvers are murdered in the U.S., campers murdered and raped in national parks, I could go on but you get the idea.

The internet is full of biased information and we can choose all day what we want to make a point.

[BillB800si]

Hey Folks- I rest my case!!!!



98% of murders in Mexico last year went unsolved !!!!!!!!!

Some 27,500 people were murdered in Mexico last year. That’s more than Colombia and Venezuela—combined. It’s more than twice the number of murders in China, and nearly twice the number in the US. In fact, it’s more than every other country in the world save for Brazil and India.
http://qz.com/105952/98-of-murders-in-mexico-last-year-went-unsolved/

Mexico Murders

[navegator]

We have a shotting per day in San Diego and nothing is sacaring the Zoonies (people from Arizona) or the Canadians, or all the rest of the tourist from coming here, so someone finds a story from Mexico and posts it here and thinks that it will do any good, no it only shows bad taste.

What do yopu think that the world thinks when they hear and read about the shootings on ower theaters and worst of all the schools, do you think that is ok or should that be something that we should be ashamed and horrified or maybe yust ignore what happens at home, ower own back yards are scary.

So to all of you that think that posting this kind of stories will keep us from travelling, you are misstaken, you are only showing us how shallow you are, we know the dangers both at home and abroad, it would be better if you tried to help educate the future generations about the devastation that drugs create in society, and try to curtal the use, but from the looks of it pretty soon we will have nothing but drug induced zomby society, maybe the Chineese will become a greater power than us if we have a bunch of drug cooked brainless wonders for politicians and society.

navegator

[bighatnohorse]

Nonsense.
Most of it. Really.

Traffic deaths in the US. . .something that most everyone faces are never talked about.
But vehicle accidents are far, far, far more likely to either take your life, or injure you.

Yet you do it everyday - and think nothing of it.

If you have fear, an emotion, don't waste time wielding it as a persuasion.

[briansue]

Reading the post above which locates Santa Ana Maya I searched to find the other places mentioned in the story. It says it was written in Tepalcatepec. It says it was in the Apatzingan Valley. One bad area was said to be Vista Hermosa. And the killing was in Santa Ana Maya. Below I list the Lat Lon of each of these places.

Only Apatzingan is in Valle Apatzingan (my map shows Rio Apatzingan so this is probably the valley mentioned).

Telalcatepec is NW of there and does not appear to be in this valley.

Santa Ana Maya is way east and on the north shore of Lake Cuitzeo.

Vista Hermosa is near the east end of Lake Chapala.

Only Tepalcatepec and Apatzingan are near each other and they are about 30 miles apart as the crow flies. The others are 100 miles – a little more or less – from each other.

Copy & Paste the below numbers to Google Earth to locate these places if you are interested.

Tepalcatepec . . . 19.18818 -102.84516

Apatzingan . . . 19.05813 -102.33025

Vista Hermosa . . . 20.27261 -102.47790

Santa Ana Maya . . . 20.00774 -101.02107

[Canadian_Rainbi]

MW Thanks for your knowledgeable and concise post. Glad you were able to add some reality before the thread was closed. I had some suspicions when I read the article that the full story was likely not 100% as written. It was certainly not what I have come to believe to be the true story since we began spending 4 or more months in Mexico every year for the last 12 years.

Thanks also to the Moderators for keeping this thread going. Perhaps this can become a source of information and history.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Being a michoacanero and a citizen of Mexico I was curious about this story

Especially when the writer HAS NO IDEA WHATSOEVER where this town is.

"the town of Santa Ana Maya in western Michoacan state"

The pueblo is in the FAR FAR northeastern section of Michoacan.

The indigenas, of Michoacan have been feuding long before the Spaniards landed.

1. Feuds between groups, families. PRI vs. PRD (PAN is insignificant here)

2. Feuds between Pueblos

3. Feuds between municipios

4. Feuds against gobernacion del estado (Michoacan

5. Feuds against gobernacion federal (México)

And throw in los carteles as a last straw.

Everybody wants to get into the act. You folks are not Mexicanos so you do not understand the prime directive of doing something and blaming it on someone else. To understand better ask a Mexican friend when you have a chance. Yes there is a large presence of criminals in Michoacan like there is a large presence of criminals all over México. When I sell my mangos to Jumex, I have to use a coyote, the same as all the others mangeros.

But making things murky in michoacan, is the fact of all these groups who for many years have pronounced the gobernacion estadal utterly corrupt with gobernacion municipal as being close behind. When the drogistas moved in, they put the julias (cops) deeper into their pocket. So self-defense groups were formed. But it doesn't stop there - these guys figured "Hey the cabrones of El Limon have been insulting us for generations; let's take care of them too".

Now enter a shipdit gringo jounalist. He sits down and tries to interpret an article written in Spanish by a jornalista who fears for his life. The gringo minterprets THE WESTERN STATE OF MICHOACAN or misuses the phrase and now all of a sudden the pueblo of Sta Ana has magically jumped several hundred miles to the west - almost into the oceano pacifico.

So now we have a commie under every bed and three more in the closet.

I saw Lazaro become infected even more. The cops were bad enough until los caballeros templarios came and made it worse. Much worse. Not violence. The outrageous corruption. It got so bad there is no police service. Hell no, the cops are full-time employees of LCT. I am not talking about balaceros (shootouts) kidnappings or using a passing casarodante for a duck in a shooting pond. The cops became utterly unresponsive to calls for petty or major crime of any sort. Pretty much what happens when a cartel takes over any area of Mexico.

But what makes Michoacan different is the independence of it's citizenry. In my pueblo, differences are not settled with the cops, differences are settled with decisions by the LFM La Familia Michoacana. This group does not violate la gente like LCT. And you can bet your sweet burro LCT does not stick their nose into LFM turf. I am fortunate.

But for anyone to sit someplace outside of Michoacan and pontificate is absurd. It would be laughable except the truth would never get out. As long as the indigenous in Michoacan decide to continue self rule, there are going to be conflicts.

Assassinations, strife, confrontations. But very very little of it involves the tourists. Involvement includes inconveniences, not merely hazard or danger.

Gobernacion Federal fears the uprising and denunciaciones. They should, the PGR has not responded to endless claims of federal corruption.

But EVERYONE blames everyone else.

And innocent merchants, and employees that rely on tourism from the extraneous are the ones who get hurt. Idiot journalists write alarmist stories that imply imminent danger when there is none. That is unforgivable.

[Tequila]

briansue wrote:
I am sure the OP sees this one murder as reason not to go Mexico. Apparently he missed the stories about the people killed in the movie theater in Colorado or the 20 elementary school kids killed in Connecticut. Can't happen here? Someone is not paying attention. There are countless stories of these things happening in the US and new stories every week. Maybe people in the US have become so immune to what is going on in the US that they don't see it anymore. But publish a story about somewhere else - such as Mexico - and watch the feathers fly. I did notice that once again we have a story with no web address for where the story can be found. Any quoted referenced deserves to have the source posted along with it - so readers can check the source.

Here is a link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-24875961

[briansue]

From the previously linked story……….

http://www.policymic.com/articles/22686/america-s-10-deadliest-cities-2012 There are actually 11 cities listed here as Newark and Oakland tied for 7th place.

In my weirdness I thought it might be interesting to compare the worst places in the world to some areas of the US based on the linked article. It is pretty clear that Michigan should be avoided at all costs. Last summer we had to go from Toronto to Indiana and had a long debate about going through Michigan. We finally found a route that goes further north and avoids the Detroit area altogether. We made it safely through but not without serious concerns. We have no concerns in Mexico. Note that the rate on the very worst year in Mexico was still lower than many areas of the US – especially Michigan!!!

............WORLD . . . 1 Honduras 82.1 . . . 2 El Salvador 66.0

1: Flint, Michigan 64.9 murders for every 100,000 citizens
………………..WORLD . . . 3 Cote d'Ivoire 56.9

2: Detroit, Michigan 54.6 murders for every 100,000 citizens

3: New Orleans, Louisiana 53.5 murders for every 100,000 citizens
……………….WORLD . . . 4 Jamaica 52.1 . . . 5 Venezuela 49.0 . . . 6 Belize 41.7 . . . 7 Guatemala 41.4 . . . 8 US Virgin Islands 39.2 . . . 9 Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2 . . . 10 Zambia 38.0 . . . 11 Uganda 36.3 . . . 12 Malawi 36.0 . . .

4: St. Louis, Missouri 35.5 murders for every 100,000 citizens
…………………WORLD . . . 13 Trinidad and Tobago 35.2

5: Baltimore, Maryland 35 murders for every 100,000 citizens
…………………WORLD . . . 14 South Africa 33.8

6: Birmingham, Alabama 33.7 murders for every 100,000 citizens
………………….WORLD . . . 15 Lesotho 33.6 . . . 16 Colombia 33.4

7: Newark, New Jersey 33.1 murders for every 100,000 citizens

7: Oakland, California 33.1 murders for every 100,000 citizens
………………………WORLD . . . 17 Congo 30.8 . . . 18 Central African Republic 29.3

8: Baton Rouge, Louisiana 28.9 for every 100,000 citizens
………………………WORLD . . . 19 Puerto Rico 26.2 . . . 20 Ethiopia 25.5

9: Cleveland, Ohio 24.6 murders for every 100,000 citizens

10: Memphis, Tennessee 24.1 murders for every 100,000 citizens

[briansue]

I am sure the OP sees this one murder as reason not to go Mexico. Apparently he missed the stories about the people killed in the movie theater in Colorado or the 20 elementary school kids killed in Connecticut. Can't happen here? Someone is not paying attention. There are countless stories of these things happening in the US and new stories every week. Maybe people in the US have become so immune to what is going on in the US that they don't see it anymore. But publish a story about somewhere else - such as Mexico - and watch the feathers fly. I did notice that once again we have a story with no web address for where the story can be found. Any quoted referenced deserves to have the source posted along with it - so readers can check the source.

[Francesca_Knowl]

boca911 wrote:
That would put Flint's 64.9 murders/100,100 in third place just behind El Salvador's 66.0. I'm sure not going to Michigan. Same logic as the OP? Why else did he post if not to scare people from going to Mexico? I'm not afraid to go to Mexico, but Michigan? I don't want to push my luck.

ray

:B.......;)

[boca911]

That would put Flint's 64.9 murders/100,100 in third place just behind El Salvador's 66.0. I'm sure not going to Michigan. Same logic as the OP? Why else did he post if not to scare people from going to Mexico? I'm not afraid to go to Mexico, but Michigan? I don't want to push my luck.

ray

[qtla9111]

Dog Folks wrote:

2oldman wrote:
Is keeping drugs illegal really worth all this?

Good question, because we certainly are not winning the "war."

Recently a border agent on Texas/Mexico border estimated that they are intercepting 1% of all the drugs. 1%? and we are spending how much? Billions? Not a very good return on investment.

And it's funny that no one talks about the people who use them. How many people does it take to consume $40,000,000,000 in drugs per year? No wonder I see so many hazy eyed kids in the high schools I visit in the U.S. Everybody says, "well, it's not my kid". It's gotta be somebody's.

[Francesca_Knowl]

In the O.P.'s defense:

Maybe he's just looking for a safer place than his native Michigan, which State enjoys the distinction of having the City with the highest murder rate in the whole U.S. of A.: Flint's Number One!.

[Cloud_Dancer]

It has been established, many times, that danger is everywhere. IMO Which kind of danger, and where, is the question. After all, we have the freedom of choice.