2022 Zephyr or Cornerstone - Which Should I Buy?

[keithos27]

Hi there, first post so I hope this is the right place (I didn't find anything when I searched). I have a 2021 Airstream Globetrotter and am looking to upgrade from a travel trailer to a Class A. Price wise I'm looking at a brand new Class A - either a Zephyr 45 or a Cornerstone 45 D. I've tried to do as much research online as possible, and I haven't seen either in person yet (I know, I know... I plan to, and to hopefully drive both too).

During my research it appears a lot of folks say the Cornerstone is the "best driving" Class A in this price range (is that due to the Spartan K3 chassis, or specifically the independent front suspension?) yet I don't see a lot of commentary on how Tiffin's proprietary chassis drives/handles. I don't want to overlook this section as this is very important to me (aesthetics are as well, but that I guess is a personal preference)... I want something that is reliable, doesn't squeak/rattle, won't beat me up over a long drive, doesn't feel like a boat on the road, etc. After all these are over half a million dollars, lol!

Also, in general is one considered "better" than the other overall? From my hours and hours of YouTube reviews (no, that doesn't make me an expert, haha) it looks to me like the Zephyr has more appliance upgrades/offerings, tile throughout, and possibly a nicer appointed driving area. Also, I believe Tiffin has been around much longer (not sure if that really matters... and doesn't Thor basically own all of them now?). Does one have better customer service? The warranty on the Tiffin seems really short to me, whereas Cornerstone is longer.

Any and all advice, recommendations, opinions is most certainly welcomed! I plan on driving both and seeing both in person, just not super easy at the moment. So all "research" I can do online will help me in the meantime.

If there is anything I am overlooking (chassis, aesthetics, floorpan, toilet space - I'm 6'5", warranty, price, etc.) please do let me know.

Thanks so much in advance! 🙂

-Keith

[Skid_Row_Joe]

Mr.Mark wrote:
I decided to go for gold. I had a new 2015 Prevost Liberty built in 2014. Yes, it was pricy, 4 slide, 45 ft., 1.5 baths, king bed, washer and dryer, 55" TV in living room and 55" in outside bay, 38" in bedroom and 24" in living room as a side TV. 9" monitor at passenger seat. It had 4 roof airs, Webasto heating, heated flooring (love that), Italian leather furniture, Crestron automation, air valves for sewer, etc. etc.

At $2.7M list, it was a gorgeous coach. I drove it for 6.5 yrs. and 63,000 miles. I decided to downsize to a class-B.

If I were going to spend $500,000 for a coach, I would certainly look for a Prevost. Liberty's are the highest price followed by Marathon, Millennium and Emerald..... there are others but those are the top 4.

There is nothing like the quality of a Prevost chassis. The service centers are nothing like a regular coach service center. Prevost service centers are made for Prevost buses and Entertainer coaches.... "GET THAT COACH BACK ON THE ROAD"....."TIME IS MONEY"!!! Prevost coach owner's get the benefit of that business model! They can take care of everything.... alignment, windshields, side windows, everything 'chassis', engine and transmission. Since Prevost uses the Volvo engine now, the Detroit Diesel will need to go to a DD service center for major repair, regular oil/belt changes can be done at Prevost.

Every brand of coach has maintenance costs including Prevost's. The slide out mechanisms are solid and robust as many components on the chassis.

Start looking at Emerald Coaches and Country Coach Prevost coaches.... very solid and not too techie.

Good luck,
Mark

Mark, I'm interested in learning the costs of your Prevost ownership. What was "out-the-door" price, and sell price after your usage? Why did you sell it? Would you do it again?

How do you like your new coach?

[Crespro]

keithos27 wrote:
I, too, appreciate all the insights and how Prevost is better than the 2nd tier options.

That being said - no one has taken a stab at answering questions around ride quality for the Zephyr vs Entegra or say a London Aire.

I can appreciate that Prevost are the top of the line chassis option.

Also, how can all the non-Prevost options be unsafe? I’m also looking to do ~10k miles / year. Dad, mom, two year old, and another on the way. This would be for traveling around in luxury.

Thank you all for the discussion!

Hi Keith,

Let me offer a few thoughts. We have had three Class A RV's and drove them with our gals over the full lower 48. Our last one was a 40DP bought new in 2005 and sold in 2017. We now have a fifth wheel with many upgrades. We also have weathered the experience of children and grandchildren toddlers.

In your shoes, I would have the following list of items to handle the needs of two toddlers for beds, playroom and bathrooms:

1. Two Bedrooms
2. Two Bathrooms
3. Stacked Washer-Dryer -- Rebuild Master Closet
4. Residential Refrigerator
5. Dishwasher -- Rebuild Island. All new countertops.
6. Instahot Water

The only RV that meets these specs is a Grand Design Momentum 397THS-R. You can see an example on changinglanesRV.com with Chad and Tara.

I understand the joy of driving a Class A with a 400ISL. But this is not compatible with the safety and child seats of a newborn and a two-year-old. The newborn should have a reverse position on a child seat until age two. The two year old will need a child seat when traveling. A crew cab F-350 DRW provides a much safer solution. I know the truck and fifth wheel is not as quick to load and set up, but suggest you might consider this. The toy hauler enables you to have a bedroom with crib, changing table, toddler bed and playroom.

If you choose this option, you will want to set a goal of 250 to 300 miles per day, with stops every hour or two. Use Google to locate a convenient big box store. You will need to hire a cabinet person to do the mods for the stacked washer-dryer and dishwasher. I did this on our RV for the Bosch dishwasher, the Miele stacked washer dryer and the Instahot, but you will be doing a larger mod. I would let DW pick out all of the countertops.

The truck would be as follows:

Ford F-350
1. Diesel Engine
2. IFS -- 4x2
3. DRW
4. Fifth Wheel Prep
5. Six Camera Mod

The IFS is important. While we have an F-250 with the 7.3 gas engine, my wife thinks the seat position and ride is very close to the comfort of our 40DP. We bought the 4x2 for this reason.

I understand this is a different plan, but suggest it fits much better for a family with two young children.

Best,

Charles

P.S. For what it is worth, I looked very hard at 45DP's in 2019, before we decided to buy the fifth wheel. I have not driven them, but looked carefully at the Essex, Zephyr and Cornerstone (and Anthem). If I were selecting a 45DP, it would be a Cornerstone. If you are interested in that, read the review of a 2016 model by Mark Q.

[Mr_Mark1]

Keith, I can't imagine that there is a dimes difference between a Zephyr, Entegra or London Aire with the ride.

Go with the floor plan that works for you and your family. A friend of mine just ordered a new Zephyr, another has an Entegra and loves it. My brother is on his 3rd Tiffin.

Safe travels,
Mark

[keithos27]

I, too, appreciate all the insights and how Prevost is better than the 2nd tier options.

That being said - no one has taken a stab at answering questions around ride quality for the Zephyr vs Entegra or say a London Aire.

I can appreciate that Prevost are the top of the line chassis option.

Also, how can all the non-Prevost options be unsafe? I’m also looking to do ~10k miles / year. Dad, mom, two year old, and another on the way. This would be for traveling around in luxury.

Thank you all for the discussion!

[hypoxia]

Mr.Mark wrote:
I did use the one on my Dynasty but macerators are rather slow.

Mr Mark, you are right about the old macerators being slow but the new Sanicon Turbo which uses a 1" hose is pretty quick. I have used it to pump 200' several times over fairly level ground.

I like to read your insight on Prevost, etc.

[Mr_Mark1]

keithos27 wrote:
I appreciate all of the insight. Are these updates Prevost models also updated with the latest driver aids in this price range usually? 360 degree cameras? Macerators? Etc?

Thats hard to answer as it all depends on what the previous owner has updated. My understanding is that Marathon does not install macerators, I did have one on my Liberty but only used it once to see if it worked, it did but never needed it.

I did use the one on my Dynasty but macerators are rather slow.

Each Prevost is unique as each are generally custom ordered by the customer. They will have the normal amenities but ALL Prevost chassis's will have the same million mile quality.

Mark

[keithos27]

I appreciate all of the insight. Are these updates Prevost models also updated with the latest driver aids in this price range usually? 360 degree cameras? Macerators? Etc?

[Mr_Mark1]

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:
Why is everybody so he11 bent to sway the OP onto an old used coach? He specifically said brand new. I'm with him -- something 15 years old . . . is just old . . . no matter how expensive and nice it was when it was new.

I don't want to come across as 'hellbent'....but, a 15 yr. old Prevost can still look like new.

Look at this coach for an example, a 2007 for $549,000.
https://www.prevostcommunity.com/coach-details.asp?ID=4420

Many Prevost coaches will have 12-15 coats of paint.

The Prevost service centers alone will impress the heck out of you!
Windshields can a run $500-600 each side (sometimes on sale) as they are bought in volume.

I just wanted to point out a Prevost chassis is not like any other chassis as it has robust parts that are truly built to run millions of miles. The belts can be changed on the side of the road in less than 30 min because they have air tensioners. The radiators and CAC's can be removed from the side opening. The engines can be slid out the back if needed.

But, we all buy and drive what we like.

Safe travels,
Mark

[LouLawrence]

Many (most?) "old" Prevost's are as nice, or nicer than the new fiberglass coaches and, as mentioned above, 1000% safer. The ride and handling is so far superior there simply is no comparison. Most of the old Prevost's have been remodeled to reflect today's decor and the bugs that haunt all those new coaches are gone. Service is available Nationwide and the support network is terrific. An XL2 in the 2007 - 2008 range will cost less than $500,000 and will be work a pile more money when you sell it years from now (if you can bare to let it go)!
Are they all just right for your needs? Of course not! Put there likely is at least one that is. You just have to keep looking. Prevost-Stuff, Prevost Community, Olympia Coach, East Tennessee Luxury Coach, Marathon and Liberty Coach are the major players in this field and it's worth a serious look before spending that kind of cash. Find one somewhere that you can drive and you will never look back.
This is our 1998 Country Coach. Nothing old about this coach. It is a non-slide, but that's our choice for a number of reasons. A dual slide would give you substantially more floor space.

[RetiredRealtorR]

Why is everybody so he11 bent to sway the OP onto an old used coach? He specifically said brand new. I'm with him -- something 15 years old . . . is just old . . . no matter how expensive and nice it was when it was new.

[Acampingwewillg]

Might look at used Blue Birds (the 450's). Yes, used but I've seen a few with low miles and less than half of a new 500,000.00 coach! That's just me though....I've always wanted a "Bird". Good luck in your search!

[Mr_Mark1]

Regular coaches are not garbage, but its not the quality of the Prevost chassis. A four slide empty Prevost chassis is $750,000 new, then the conversion starts.

Prevosts have a true stainless steel monocoque chassis with a Kevlar composite exterior on the H-3 45's... the XL 45's have Kevlar and stainless steel exteriors. Prevost have REAL front and rear bumpers, they can take a beating and keep on ticking! LOL!

It's the safety of the chassis that is priceless. You can pretty much roll a Prevost and it stay intact whereas a 'house-on-frame' will fall apart.

I have friends that had an older Prevost and a drunk driver hit them head-on. The passenger door was pushed in so they had to go out the emergency window. The coach was intact but totaled because of age. They survived! The accident broke the steering and it ended up wandering into a ditch in one piece! They bought another Prevost.

99% of the time we will not be in a serious accident, until we are.

Thats why I bought a Mercedes Sprinter, it's all a one piece chassis which makes it solid, not a cut-a-way chassis.

But, buy what works for you.

Safe travels,
Mark

[keithos27]

Thanks Mr. Mark. I hear you - I just worry I won't find anything I like in my price range used for what you are recommending. Used is certainly cheaper than new, but I'm not finding any $2M+ coaches for $500K now (without them looking horrendous - IMO - nowadays).

I get it... Prevost is the best. But does that really mean that all the other stuff out there is ****? I can't imagine for $500-$800K for a new 45' Class A from the "lesser brands" you get garbage?

[Mr_Mark1]

keithos27 wrote:

lryrob9301 wrote:
I agree, for that kind of money i would be looking for a used Newell, Marathon, or Liberty coach. Ten times better construction quality and driveability.

Used Newells that I'm seeing are in similar category to Prevost... too old, or too expensive. 😞

Keith, don't let the 'new technology' fool you into quality.

I had a 2008 Monaco Dynasty built in 2007....42 ft., nice coach, enjoyed it for 7.5 yrs. and 70,000 miles.

I decided to go for gold. I had a new 2015 Prevost Liberty built in 2014. Yes, it was pricy, 4 slide, 45 ft., 1.5 baths, king bed, washer and dryer, 55" TV in living room and 55" in outside bay, 38" in bedroom and 24" in living room as a side TV. 9" monitor at passenger seat. It had 4 roof airs, Webasto heating, heated flooring (love that), Italian leather furniture, Crestron automation, air valves for sewer, etc. etc.

At $2.7M list, it was a gorgeous coach. I drove it for 6.5 yrs. and 63,000 miles. I decided to downsize to a class-B.

If I were going to spend $500,000 for a coach, I would certainly look for a Prevost. Liberty's are the highest price followed by Marathon, Millennium and Emerald..... there are others but those are the top 4.

There is nothing like the quality of a Prevost chassis. The service centers are nothing like a regular coach service center. Prevost service centers are made for Prevost buses and Entertainer coaches.... "GET THAT COACH BACK ON THE ROAD"....."TIME IS MONEY"!!! Prevost coach owner's get the benefit of that business model! They can take care of everything.... alignment, windshields, side windows, everything 'chassis', engine and transmission. Since Prevost uses the Volvo engine now, the Detroit Diesel will need to go to a DD service center for major repair, regular oil/belt changes can be done at Prevost.

Every brand of coach has maintenance costs including Prevost's. The slide out mechanisms are solid and robust as many components on the chassis.

Start looking at Emerald Coaches and Country Coach Prevost coaches.... very solid and not too techie.

Good luck,
Mark