450 cu in or 3.3 diesel..?

[Sully2]

Although I doubt a buyer can get his "choice" of engines in the same coach..??..In comparable sized ( weight...etc) coaches do people feel one engine is MUCH more power than the other.

Im not worried about MPG as I am in "running our or power" at the top of a STRONG grade when I might be towing something.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[pnichols]

Sully2 (the OP),

With respect to your original post: I have a relatively small 24 foot E450 based Class C with the V10 in it and load pulling rear differential gearing (the E450 chassis provides that over the E350 chassis).

It does "fly up the hills" as a result ... even while pulling our aluminum fishing boat, but since it's not a diesel I have to rev it appropriately so as to tap the necessary horsepower to pull the load up the chosen grade at the desired speed.

[JaxDad]

Sully2 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:
The figures seem to prove that there is NO free ride.

You pay more up front, or more at the pump. However, unless you drive a bunch of miles a year, you will likely never get the purchase price back in MPG and / or resale value.

HUH? No one asked about purchase price...etc...etc. And I wont be driving all that many miles each year so that the fuel consumption doesnt bother me...but the question AGAIN is....

The 460 Ford all that more powerful that the 3 liter Mercedes engine??

I Guess they arent installing the 460 engine they are using the V10 motor??)

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

All things being (close?) to equal, yes, it's like wrestling, as agile as the little guy is, the big always wins.

But as I was trying to say the first go round, and failed apparently, you can have a big coach with a 460, or a little coach with a small diesel. However, you end up in the same place, financially. You buy a smaller, lighter, more expensive diesel and save some on $$$, or you buy a bigger, heavier gasser for less $$$$.

Neither one is a Ferrari, neither one will fly up the mountain grade.

[RobertRyan]

pnichols wrote:
Since this is a Class C forum, Golden_HVAC may have meant E450 instead of F450 when he first mentioned it above.

Robert, for the 3 liter diesel in the IVECO to have weight ratings as you show, it must have either horsepower equal to or only sligthly greater than that of the F(E?)450, or if the IVECO horsepower is less ... have to pull those weights slower up grades than what the F(E?)450 can.

Yes he did mean E450, not it is not slower. They have a 4x4 version that has a 4,000lb payload, climbs like a Unimog and tows 7,700lb Pretty amazing. They climb as well as the Sprinters, not towing As I said they are not available in NA for comparison
Jayco version


You see something like this and think it is not possible

[pnichols]

Since this is a Class C forum, Golden_HVAC may have meant E450 instead of F450 when he first mentioned it above.

Robert, for the 3 liter diesel in the IVECO to have weight ratings as you show, it must have either horsepower equal to or only sligthly greater than that of the F(E?)450, or if the IVECO horsepower is less ... have to pull those weights slower up grades than what the F(E?)450 can.

[RobertRyan]

Golden HVAC wrote:
As for comparing engine HP to a 3.3L diesel you will have a bunch more power from the larger gas engine, and it can run all day at 4,000 RPM climbing hills, ect, pulling a large trailer and such. The Ford F-450 motorhomes have a 14,050 GVWR (total weight limit on all 6 tires) and a 22,000 GCVWR (total of motorhome and what it is towing). So with a 13,000 curb weight, a F-450 based motorhome can have 1,000 pounds on the hitch, and be towing a trailer with a 9,000 pound total weight.

The 3litre Diesel IVECO Daily, 70C at 15,400lb GVWR and a 23,000lb GCVWR , 6,600-7,200lb (towing at a slightly less GVWR) a RAWR greater than a F450 is the real EXCEPTION to the rule, but it is not sold in NA

[pnichols]

For what it's worth:

Raw engine horsepower is the name of the game ... not how much torque any given engine produces on it's crankshaft. Torque to the drive wheels is what counts and is achieved via overall gearing of the vehicle's entire drive-train - in combination with the raw horsepower of the engine.

Since diesel engines produce high crankshaft torque in combination with low engine RPM, less "gearing down" is required in the vehicle's drive-train in order to get the required torque to the drive wheels for any given horsepower that the engine is capable of. But the base horsepower you need to spin the drive wheels while pulling a particular load ... regardless of any gearing used to tap the engine's horsepower versus it's RPM curve ... must be available from the engine.

I'd opt for the highest horsepower engine ... which probably means choose the gas engine ... bearing in mind that you will have to "rev it higher" than a diesel to make the horsepower to produce the needed torque for the drive wheels.

[Triker33]

Apples to Oranges?

[Golden_HVAC]

The Ford 6.8L is used in many class C motorhomes and is about 415 cubic inches.

As for comparing engine HP to a 3.3L diesel you will have a bunch more power from the larger gas engine, and it can run all day at 4,000 RPM climbing hills, ect, pulling a large trailer and such. The Ford F-450 motorhomes have a 14,050 GVWR (total weight limit on all 6 tires) and a 22,000 GCVWR (total of motorhome and what it is towing). So with a 13,000 curb weight, a F-450 based motorhome can have 1,000 pounds on the hitch, and be towing a trailer with a 9,000 pound total weight.

The small diesel engines used in Sprinter van based motorhomes are not rated to tow a lot more weight, than the basic GVWR of the motorhome itself.

Good luck,

Fred.

[KD4UPL]

I've never heard of a 450 cu inch engine. Something's wrong.

[carringb]

What are you looking at with a 450 cubic inch motor? The big blocks went away a decade ago at least!

[Sully2]

JaxDad wrote:
The figures seem to prove that there is NO free ride.

You pay more up front, or more at the pump. However, unless you drive a bunch of miles a year, you will likely never get the purchase price back in MPG and / or resale value.

HUH? No one asked about purchase price...etc...etc. And I wont be driving all that many miles each year so that the fuel consumption doesnt bother me...but the question AGAIN is....

The 460 Ford all that more powerful that the 3 liter Mercedes engine??

I Guess they arent installing the 460 engine they are using the V10 motor??)

[K_Charles]

3.3 liter is about 200 cu in so if both diesel that would be smaller.

[JaxDad]

The figures seem to prove that there is NO free ride.

You pay more up front, or more at the pump. However, unless you drive a bunch of miles a year, you will likely never get the purchase price back in MPG and / or resale value.