Are large gas motor Rv's underpower?

[invmartyc]

At the risk of getting someone angry for me asking the same question they don't want to see again, that no doubt some people feel has been discussed enough.

Are gas Class A's underpowered to tow a toad in any area with mountains or large hills.

I have read people with gassers say that they are powerful enough for them to tow a toad anywhere. And I have read that no gas motor Class A has the power and that you need a diesel motor.

What is the truth, not opinion on this?

[phnguyk]

Ivylog wrote:
It seems I get passed by gasser's more often than other DPs. At some point I'll pass them as they will be in the shop with serious engine problems. The more HP you get/cu in the shorter the life of the engine (both gas and diesel). With proper maintenance and some luck a gas MH is probably good for 200K trouble free miles while a diesel is probably 400+K miles. Both more than enough for most although those that pass me will not get 200K trouble free miles. Yes, I have a fairly heavy right foot and to pass me you will be working your gas engine at 90% while I'm at 50%.

OP gassers aren't underpowered.

Quoted above. Second sentence is total bull.

[Daveinet]

nemo45 wrote:
How about when it downshifts to 3rd gear when going up a hill? At 5200 rpms it sounds like its going to explode.

Naw, its the sweetest sound you will ever hear. Nothing like a big block with headers and straight through mufflers running wide open at max RPM. (Although running a 6% grade at 80 mph, I was only turning 4200 RPM)

down home wrote:
... Torque is what gets you up hill. That's the reason the big coaches are pushing 2,000 lbs or torque or more.

I'm guessing that is why the folks at Caterpillar use the HP rating when describing the requirements for pulling heavy vehicles up steep grades. They do not even discuss torque in that context, because torque specification does not quantify performance.

[kevden]

rgatijnet1 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Mr.Mark wrote:
Valhallo360, I had changed my post slightly before yours came up. The John Deere was digging itself into a whole while the steam engine tractor was pulling it. It was good video!

MM.

In that case traction was definetly the issue. Once the wheels start spinning, you aren't able to harness either the HP or the torque.

The rear wheels on those old steam tractors probably literally weigh a ton each, let alone everything else built out of heavy solid metal pieces.

A similar analogy would be to adapt the engine out of a big diesel pusher and put it into a smart car and put it up against a 1 ton pickup with the base gas engine. I can guarantee the pickup would hardly notice the smart car back there even though smart car would easily have more HP and torque.

I think that you will find is that with a steam engine, the power is in the pressure in the boiler, which is already built up to the maximum, before the drive train is put in to motion. It is not like a gasoline or diesel engine that has to develop RPM's before it can start delivering power. As soon as the steam pressure is released to the piston, all of the power is there, even at 1 RPM. The same goes for certain electric motors, which is why they are used in heavy locomotives. The diesel engine in a train powers the generator which powers the electric drive motor that makes the train move. The full power of the electric motor is there to apply to the drive wheels, right from a standing start. It, like the steam engine, does not have to develop any RPM's to have the power to get a huge train in motion.

aren't all of the gas vs diesel threads enough? Now we have to add steam to the debate!
Hey, wait a minute. . . . With steam power you would never have to use a dump station again! Time to shop for a new steam powered rv! 🙂

[AllegroD]

rgatijnet1 wrote:

nemo45 wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:

tom076 wrote:
I have a 2000 Coachman Triton V-10, power has not been an issue, we are looking at a DP, because of the hope that it will be a quieter ride. We have to shout at each to be heard over the engine. Radio is of no use while traveling at 60-65 MPH on level road, just gets worse on hill climbs.

A lot of progress has been made in 14 years. The newer gas coaches are not near as loud as they were. I have no problem hearing the DW at 65-70 cruise. Maybe I should look for a 2000 model. :B

How about when it downshifts to 3rd gear when going up a hill? At 5200 rpms it sounds like its going to explode. With a DP you don't hear anything at all up front. I had a 2010 Georgetown. The V10 had plenty of power, but didn't like the noise from right under my feet. And the airbags give the DP a much nicer ride.

Simple question.....out of all of the miles someone will put on their coach, how many miles, or how many minutes, do you think they will be in a condition that has the engine at 5200 RPM's?
I've got 90,000 miles on my coach right now, most in the Western mountains, and I consider the few times where the noise was uncomfortable to be so few as to be insignificant. I always made it up the hill and down the other side and that is all that mattered. The OP wanted to know if the gas units were underpowered and I think the overwhelming answer is no.

This depends on the year and coach mfgr. Ours is fairly quiet and has dynamat type insulation under the floor and it covers the firewall. We have normal conversation up to about 5k. We even talk through the stereo, on a bluetooth connection, on a phone call. Not a headset. The mike is in the dash, in front of the driver. Our Coachmen Aurora 3480DS, previous coach, was a V10, without the insulation, so we know the difference. As stated, we only have to speak loudly, while above 5k rpm, for 30-60 seconds of that high rpm.

the silverback wrote:
Downshift a gas MH on a down grade. That is my idea of compression braking. My Workhorse has a setting that it will do the when the brakes are used.

The newer models have a tow/haul assist that provides engine deceleration. We use it and it works. Not perfect but has reduced the braking a lot.

[rgatijnet1]

nemo45 wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:

tom076 wrote:
I have a 2000 Coachman Triton V-10, power has not been an issue, we are looking at a DP, because of the hope that it will be a quieter ride. We have to shout at each to be heard over the engine. Radio is of no use while traveling at 60-65 MPH on level road, just gets worse on hill climbs.

A lot of progress has been made in 14 years. The newer gas coaches are not near as loud as they were. I have no problem hearing the DW at 65-70 cruise. Maybe I should look for a 2000 model. :B

How about when it downshifts to 3rd gear when going up a hill? At 5200 rpms it sounds like its going to explode. With a DP you don't hear anything at all up front. I had a 2010 Georgetown. The V10 had plenty of power, but didn't like the noise from right under my feet. And the airbags give the DP a much nicer ride.

Simple question.....out of all of the miles someone will put on their coach, how many miles, or how many minutes, do you think they will be in a condition that has the engine at 5200 RPM's?
I've got 90,000 miles on my coach right now, most in the Western mountains, and I consider the few times where the noise was uncomfortable to be so few as to be insignificant. I always made it up the hill and down the other side and that is all that mattered. The OP wanted to know if the gas units were underpowered and I think the overwhelming answer is no.

[nemo45]

rgatijnet1 wrote:

tom076 wrote:
I have a 2000 Coachman Triton V-10, power has not been an issue, we are looking at a DP, because of the hope that it will be a quieter ride. We have to shout at each to be heard over the engine. Radio is of no use while traveling at 60-65 MPH on level road, just gets worse on hill climbs.

A lot of progress has been made in 14 years. The newer gas coaches are not near as loud as they were. I have no problem hearing the DW at 65-70 cruise. Maybe I should look for a 2000 model. :B

How about when it downshifts to 3rd gear when going up a hill? At 5200 rpms it sounds like its going to explode. With a DP you don't hear anything at all up front. I had a 2010 Georgetown. The V10 had plenty of power, but didn't like the noise from right under my feet. And the airbags give the DP a much nicer ride.

[Rodz]

down home wrote:
Down to basics. The diesels are heavier built and run at lower rpm. The first major over hall, is usually at 1,000,000 miles.
EPA regs have crippled diesel effecieny somewhat but it is still closer to 40% to the gas engine's 25% or so. that is the reason diesels have such big radiators they produce more power and more heat. Torque is what gets you up hill. That's the reason the big coaches are pushing 2,000 lbs or torque or more.
I can build you a big gas engine of 2,500 hp and more and 2,000 lb, of torque, or as much as your pocket can handle but you'll have to pull it down every little bit, if you use the power. Your fuel bill will be for the 4mpg range or less. If you can afford the diesel, get one before 07 and miss the pig p--- tank and corrossion problem too. I reemember some of the semis with 492 Ford gas engines and others. There's a reason the semis all run diesels. Reliability and power and economy, of fuel as compared to a gas engine, of the power neccessary.

I build a lot of race motors and a 2500 hp engine won't get 4 mpg. More like 10 gals per mile. In the new coach there's not a lot of difference in mileage or ride between the two. At a 100k more it would take many years to recover your cost.

[down_home]

Down to basics. The diesels are heavier built and run at lower rpm. The first major over hall, is usually at 1,000,000 miles.
EPA regs have crippled diesel effecieny somewhat but it is still closer to 40% to the gas engine's 25% or so. that is the reason diesels have such big radiators they produce more power and more heat. Torque is what gets you up hill. That's the reason the big coaches are pushing 2,000 lbs or torque or more.
I can build you a big gas engine of 2,500 hp and more and 2,000 lb, of torque, or as much as your pocket can handle but you'll have to pull it down every little bit, if you use the power. Your fuel bill will be for the 4mpg range or less. If you can afford the diesel, get one before 07 and miss the pig p--- tank and corrossion problem too. I reemember some of the semis with 492 Ford gas engines and others. There's a reason the semis all run diesels. Reliability and power and economy, of fuel as compared to a gas engine, of the power neccessary.

[Gjac]

rgatijnet1 wrote:

tom076 wrote:
I have a 2000 Coachman Triton V-10, power has not been an issue, we are looking at a DP, because of the hope that it will be a quieter ride. We have to shout at each to be heard over the engine. Radio is of no use while traveling at 60-65 MPH on level road, just gets worse on hill climbs.

A lot of progress has been made in 14 years. The newer gas coaches are not near as loud as they were. I have no problem hearing the DW at 65-70 cruise. Maybe I should look for a 2000 model. :B

What year Ford do you have? Do you know when Ford made these sound reductions improvements?

[Rodz]

My last 2 were dp's. Before that I had a Coachman Santara with a 460. I pulled a well equipped 32' enclosed trailer complete with 2000 lb drag car, generator, compressor, full tool box, spare parts and 40 gals of fuel. I traveled all over central U.S. for over 5 yrs. It pulled the hills and mountains good considering all the weight. I just went back to a gasser. The new V 10s have over 100 hp more so I think it will pull a towed just fine.

[the_silverback]

Downshift a gas MH on a down grade. That is my idea of compression braking. My Workhorse has a setting that it will do the when the brakes are used.

[JetAonly]

invmartyc wrote:
At the risk of getting someone angry for me asking the same question they don't want to see again, that no doubt some people feel has been discussed enough.

Are gas Class A's underpowered to tow a toad in any area with mountains or large hills.

I have read people with gassers say that they are powerful enough for them to tow a toad anywhere. And I have read that no gas motor Class A has the power and that you need a diesel motor.

What is the truth, not opinion on this?

Back to the OP.

Fact is, it's your opinion that counts. If you have a towed over 5k, few gas MH will do that. Diesels are generally Turbo Charged, Cummins rates theirs to produce sea level HP up to 10,000 ft. Gas motors, unless boosted, don't do that. A naturally aspirated gas motor will have lost 40% of is rated HP at 10k ft. On the down hill side few gas motors have exhaust brakes, none have compression brakes, 'cause what goes up…must come down.

[rgatijnet1]

tom076 wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:



A lot of progress has been made in 14 years. The newer gas coaches are not near as loud as they were. I have no problem hearing the DW at 65-70 cruise. Maybe I should look for a 2000 model. :B

I had a dreadful noise in the right front of my Chieftain, then I moved her back to the sofa.
bumpy

Ok, you two, I've been married for 43 years and I know better than to comment on your suggestions, she reads these posts.:W

We hit 50 years last Oct. In seven more years you will understand. :B

[tom076]

Bumpyroad wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:



A lot of progress has been made in 14 years. The newer gas coaches are not near as loud as they were. I have no problem hearing the DW at 65-70 cruise. Maybe I should look for a 2000 model. :B

I had a dreadful noise in the right front of my Chieftain, then I moved her back to the sofa.
bumpy

Ok, you two, I've been married for 43 years and I know better than to comment on your suggestions, she reads these posts.:W