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Cheap Heat electric add-on

den60
Explorer
Explorer
I'm just curious if anyone has had the Cheap Heat electric heat by Comfort Systems added to their coach? I am thinking about having one added to my coach but would love to get some feed back from people that have actually had one installed. My coach is 40' so I would think that would be a lot of space to heat for one add-on heater but they say it works great on their site. I would like to hear the pros and cons. I think it would be nice to have more options than just using the LP furnace. I love my coach and would rather keep adding the things that I want rather than to trade it for a new all electric rig. I looked at the new all electric rig by Newmar but, I will stick with mine. Thanks to all that reply.
2005 Newmar Northern Star 40'
350 Cat, Allison Trans
2000 Honda CR-V Toad
47 REPLIES 47

harold1946
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna wrote:
Hi harold,

What bothers me is the bad design.
:@

FMCA, Trailer Life, RV Business, Underwriter Laboritories (UL) and RVIA do not agree with your assessment.
Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad

jcthorne
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna wrote:
Hi harold,

What bothers me is the bad design.


I think its a pretty well thought out and complete design. Works like an OEM installed central heat system should work. Nothing more, nothing less. Quiet, even heat in every room and area of our motorhome. We are very happy with the system and I installed it myself. RVCS was also quite helpful during the install with several suggestions to keep things simple and easy.
2008 Damon 3575 (38ft, forward kitchen)on Ford 22k chassis

harold1946
Explorer
Explorer
Pianotuna; This one is absolutly false.
"Voids warranty on the furnace."

The 1974 Magnusson-Moss Act-Public Law 93-637 Section (C).
It is illegal for any primary product manufacturer to void the warranty when a 3rd party product is attached to a primary product.

I would be willing to bet Canada has a similar law of which you are obviously not aware.

If one wishes to upgrade from 30 amp to 50 amp for operating the larger BTU unit, where possible, it can be done for about $200. RV Comfort Systems will supply complete instructions to do so.
Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi Lady,

I invite you to comment on which of my observations is wrong. I would appreciate being corrected if a statement is false.

As to inconsequential--that is a matter of opinion and my opinion is just as valid as yours.

I now have data on a cold soaked rv that suggests that about 45 amps are needed to warm it up from -20 (-f f) to +20 C (68 f) taking about 9 hours and that at least 25 amps are required to keep it warm when the ambient temperature is -25 C (-13 f).

Anyone contemplating the 'cheap heat' system should wire it for the largest possible amperage design, if they camp in weather that is truly cold.

Merry Christmas.

Lady Fitzgerald wrote:

Hi pianotuna,

What bothers me is every one of your complaints have been debunked by several people in past threads yet you persist with the same inconsequential or inaccurate arguments.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Lady_Fitzgerald
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna wrote:
Hi harold,

What bothers me is the bad design.


Hi pianotuna,

What bothers me is every one of your complaints have been debunked by several people in past threads yet you persist with the same inconsequential or inaccurate arguments.
Jeannie

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi harold,

What bothers me is the bad design.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

harold1946
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna wrote:
Hi harold,

Since you want to take the gloves off again here is what I think of the system you promote so strongly.

Advantages:

Nothing to trip over. (but my heaters are in otherwise wasted space, so are "no trip")

Uses existing thermostat

is available in 3 "flavors"

can be set to run furnace fan at 1/2 speed (because other wise the smallest flavor blows pretty darned cool air, just like a heat strip)

Power is "brought to you" unlike propane which you must go and get.



Disadvantages:

Can not fail over to furnace

Can not replace all heating needs in the 30 amp flavor

Probably can not replace all heating needs in the "medium" flavor

Can not be used with 15 amp power

Can not be run to act as a helper to the furnace

takes 5 hours to install (and that is if you have done more than one).

Costs $500 smackers plus install (so in my opinion to call it cheap heat is an insult)

requires a good working knowledge of electricity to diy

voids the warranty on the furnace

the three flavors are identical--just wired differently to allow different output levels

the 30 amp flavor does only a few more watts than a heat strip in an air conditioner

the furnace fan gets a lot more hours on it

has the same noise level as the propane furnace.

Break even even for a full time RV'er is several years of use.


I promote it because it does exactly what it is designed to do, which seems to bother you immensley.
Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi harold,

Since you want to take the gloves off again here is what I think of the system you promote so strongly.

Advantages:

Nothing to trip over. (but my heaters are in otherwise wasted space, so are "no trip")

Uses existing thermostat

is available in 3 "flavors"

can be set to run furnace fan at 1/2 speed (because other wise the smallest flavor blows pretty darned cool air, just like a heat strip)

Power is "brought to you" unlike propane which you must go and get.



Disadvantages:

Can not fail over to furnace

Can not replace all heating needs in the 30 amp flavor

Probably can not replace all heating needs in the "medium" flavor

Can not be used with 15 amp power

Can not be run to act as a helper to the furnace

takes 5 hours to install (and that is if you have done more than one).

Costs $500 smackers plus install (so in my opinion to call it cheap heat is an insult)

requires a good working knowledge of electricity to diy

voids the warranty on the furnace

the three flavors are identical--just wired differently to allow different output levels

the 30 amp flavor does only a few more watts than a heat strip in an air conditioner

the furnace fan gets a lot more hours on it

has the same noise level as the propane furnace.

Break even even for a full time RV'er is several years of use. (And then only if the power happens to be included in campsite cost.)
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

harold1946
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna wrote:
Hi den60,

I prefer the silence of electric fired oil based heaters. My anti freeze fan is much quieter than the furnace fan even running 1/2 speed. I have mine installed permanently in otherwise wasted space.


Don't forget to tell him about your extension cords, propane tank heater, blankets, and box fans.:B
Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi den60,

I prefer the silence of electric fired oil based heaters. My anti freeze fan is much quieter than the furnace fan even running 1/2 speed. I have mine installed permanently in otherwise wasted space.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

harold1946
Explorer
Explorer
den60 wrote:
Thanks so much everyone for your replies. I checked out all the links you all posted and found them all quite informative and very helpful. Since I do have the room and 50Amp service, I am going to give the cheap heat a go. The only thing I thought differently was I thought I read that the system had to be installed by a qualified dealer. I would like to do the install myself. Thanks again everyone.


Some of the old websits are still up. The new kits are for DIY and all wires are color coded with very complete instructions.
I think you would be very pleased with the system. Nice even heat throughout the coach and no space heaters to mess with.
Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad

den60
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks so much everyone for your replies. I checked out all the links you all posted and found them all quite informative and very helpful. Since I do have the room and 50Amp service, I am going to give the cheap heat a go. The only thing I thought differently was I thought I read that the system had to be installed by a qualified dealer. I would like to do the install myself. Thanks again everyone.
2005 Newmar Northern Star 40'
350 Cat, Allison Trans
2000 Honda CR-V Toad

harold1946
Explorer
Explorer
den60 wrote:
I'm just curious if anyone has had the Cheap Heat electric heat by Comfort Systems added to their coach? I am thinking about having one added to my coach but would love to get some feed back from people that have actually had one installed. My coach is 40' so I would think that would be a lot of space to heat for one add-on heater but they say it works great on their site. I would like to hear the pros and cons. I think it would be nice to have more options than just using the LP furnace. I love my coach and would rather keep adding the things that I want rather than to trade it for a new all electric rig. I looked at the new all electric rig by Newmar but, I will stick with mine. Thanks to all that reply.


Some of us have done so and are pleased with it. This is our fourth winter and I installed it myself.
Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad

Golden_HVAC
Explorer
Explorer
I prefer to buy a small electric heater at Wal Mart, and use it to blow heat at my feet. As long as my feet are warm, then I am warm.

Any electric heater will produce up to 3.4 Btu's per watt of input electric. Nothing more. Using a quartz lamp some claim they can make more heat, but they don't. Might be even less heat, because some of the heat is turned into light, not heat.

The only way to make more heat from a electric system is to run a heat pump, and transfer heat. But that is not the subject.

As for saving money, 1 gallon of propane can change in price from one area to another, depending on shipping from the refinery and greed of the retailers among other things. Electric costs also vary from one area to another. Here in Portland Oregon, where they have lots of hydroelectric, it is around $0.10 per KW, and electric heat makes sence.

To get about 80,000 Btu's, you can burn 1 gallon of propane or have an electric heater burn 22 KW. So my cost is $2.20 for electric heat, or about $2.49 currently for propane. To run a heat pump at 40F outside temp, it would take about 8,000 watts to collect and transfer 80,000 Btu's inside. Or about $0.80. At less than 20F, heat pumps become less efficient, however continue to work, and will keep you warm.

Modern R-410 freon heat pumps are even more efficient, and will produce much warmer supply air than a R-22 based system that might be more than 6 years old. The designers have figured out they needed to move more outside air, and the R-410 has a much higher boiling point, so the pressures are higher in both the heating and cooling modes. Of course RV heat pumps change over automatically to electric heat or the furnace at 40F outside air temperature, however home heat pumps can work at 0F by cooling the outside air to -20F discharge temperature, and frequent use of the defrost cycle when the outside coil gets to cold. RV heat pumps do not use the defrost cycle, but would rely on the fan blowing air more than 33F across the coil to remove any frost from it. Thus they just chut off with a built in thermostat at around 38-40F.

When I was living in my RV in Portland Oregon, I had a 120 volt extension cord plugged into the main panel, and my 30 amp RV too. Then I ran one 1,500 watt heater from the extension cord (12 gauge) and from the RV had 2 electric heaters run on 800 watt setting. Also ran the refrigerator on electric too. Never tripped a circuit breaker all winter.

Fred.
Money can't buy happiness but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a

Porsche or Country Coach!



If there's a WILL, I want to be in it!



I havn't been everywhere, but it's on my list.

Kangen.com Alkaline water

Escapees.com

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi,

You can 'roll your own' much cheaper and have more flexibility. Follow the link to real life testing.

heating electrically
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.