Cheap Heat electric add-on

[den60]

I'm just curious if anyone has had the Cheap Heat electric heat by Comfort Systems added to their coach? I am thinking about having one added to my coach but would love to get some feed back from people that have actually had one installed. My coach is 40' so I would think that would be a lot of space to heat for one add-on heater but they say it works great on their site. I would like to hear the pros and cons. I think it would be nice to have more options than just using the LP furnace. I love my coach and would rather keep adding the things that I want rather than to trade it for a new all electric rig. I looked at the new all electric rig by Newmar but, I will stick with mine. Thanks to all that reply.

[John___Angela]

I think the size of the unit needed will be determined by the expected temperatures you have to operate in. For example 2400 watts of heat evenly distributed throughout our 40 foot motorhome is enough to keep it comfortable in the 10 to 15 degree fahrenheit range. (say minus 5 C or so) If you don't expect to be in temps below that the smaller unit might be fine.

Re the warranty thing, although a valid concern, remember warranties are only good for a year or two anyway.

[Lady_Fitzgerald]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

Then how do explain the web page at the Attwood site which essentially states that modifications will void the warranty?

While Atwood's claim is actually illegal, it doesn't matter because Cheap Heat will cover the furnace's warranty if the manufacturer will not. I wish I had a dollar for every time you have been told this.

[Lady_Fitzgerald]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

If you have a 30 amp service then the cheap heat won't meet your needs. If you have a 50 amp service--then there is no need for multiple cords to run heaters.

I have a 30 amp service, so I do indeed have to run more than one shore power cord.

I suggest you install the biggest possible unit, since you have already proved that the smallest one and the medium size one are NOT going to meet your real life needs.

Interesting about the start up and electric motors. Does it apply to A.C. (120 volt) motors too?

So the bearings in a motor never wear out?

2-MTnesters wrote:
Over Thanksgiving We used our Montana as an additional bedroom for relatives that were in visiting from Texas. We had the furnace set at 65f during the day and 70f at night. We also had 2 space heaters running continuously in addition to the gas furnace. 1.5 30lb tanks of lpg were consumed during this time frame. Where we live I pay right at $25 to fill a 30lb cylinder. At the rate of consumption of 1.5 tanks of propane per week it would only take 13.5 weeks to have spent $500! For me this is a no-brainer, I would rather spend $500 on the Cheap Heat system and have it paid for in 1 season than to have to run numerous small electric heaters in addition to running the gas furnace and having to worry about running out of gas! Speaking only for myself, the Cheap Heat system is what I'm going to purchase for my camper because it is more practical for MY needs. I don't want electric baseboard heaters or stand-alone electric heaters in the middle of the floor, I don't want multiple extension cords run from the rig to the power pedestal and I also want heat in the basement to keep water lines, drains and valves thawed like the factory system is intended to do. Also, if the furnace blower has to run longer with the electric add-on that's fine, the life of an electric motor is NOT shortened by running, it's shortened by the max amp draw of the start condition.

How do you know the smaller version of Cheap Heat will not meet his needs? Back up your claims with hard facts, not your opinions. Keep in mind he is in Texas, not Canada. It doesn't get down to -20° very often (to put it mildly; the coldest I ever saw was 9° and that was 40 years ago when it was colder than it is now).

The bearings will last for so long, whether used on electric heat or on gas heat. If you weren't using electric heat, you would be using gas heat, running the blower. In fact, the fan motor bearings should last longer when used on electric heat since they won't get as hot and they are running at a slower speed.

Why do you insist on denigrating Cheap Heat when it is so obvious you know so little about it, especially after several people, including people who actually own and use Cheap Heat, keep disproving your ridiculous allegations?

[harold1946]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi harold,

No need to call. Here it is on a web link. I'll make it a clicky for you. Cheap Heat Info Notice

harold1946 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

Then how do explain the web page at the Attwood site which essentially states that modifications will void the warranty?

I suggest you call Atwood and have them explain it to you.
In actuality the furnace is not being modified. The system is an aftermarket add on, and does not alter the furnace.
Think if it like adding a receiver hitch to a truck. Does that void the truck warranty?

That has been on the web for over 4 years and is not enforcable per the Magnusson-Moss Act of 1974.
Just because something is on a website does not make it fact. Like I said, call Atwood, then quote the law to them. They will promise to remove it, but they never do.

[pianotuna]

Hi harold,

No need to call. Here it is on a web link. I'll make it a clicky for you. Cheap Heat Info Notice

harold1946 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

Then how do explain the web page at the Attwood site which essentially states that modifications will void the warranty?

I suggest you call Atwood and have them explain it to you.
In actuality the furnace is not being modified. The system is an aftermarket add on, and does not alter the furnace.
Think if it like adding a receiver hitch to a truck. Does that void the truck warranty?

[2-MTnesters]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

If you have a 30 amp service then the cheap heat won't meet your needs. If you have a 50 amp service--then there is no need for multiple cords to run heaters.

I have a 30 amp service, so I do indeed have to run more than one shore power cord.

I suggest you install the biggest possible unit, since you have already proved that the smallest one and the medium size one are NOT going to meet your real life needs.

Interesting about the start up and electric motors. Does it apply to A.C. (120 volt) motors too?

So the bearings in a motor never wear out?

2-MTnesters wrote:
Over Thanksgiving We used our Montana as an additional bedroom for relatives that were in visiting from Texas. We had the furnace set at 65f during the day and 70f at night. We also had 2 space heaters running continuously in addition to the gas furnace. 1.5 30lb tanks of lpg were consumed during this time frame. Where we live I pay right at $25 to fill a 30lb cylinder. At the rate of consumption of 1.5 tanks of propane per week it would only take 13.5 weeks to have spent $500! For me this is a no-brainer, I would rather spend $500 on the Cheap Heat system and have it paid for in 1 season than to have to run numerous small electric heaters in addition to running the gas furnace and having to worry about running out of gas! Speaking only for myself, the Cheap Heat system is what I'm going to purchase for my camper because it is more practical for MY needs. I don't want electric baseboard heaters or stand-alone electric heaters in the middle of the floor, I don't want multiple extension cords run from the rig to the power pedestal and I also want heat in the basement to keep water lines, drains and valves thawed like the factory system is intended to do. Also, if the furnace blower has to run longer with the electric add-on that's fine, the life of an electric motor is NOT shortened by running, it's shortened by the max amp draw of the start condition.

I do have the 50amp service on my camper so I will be getting the largest unit that my furnace will allow. As for the motor remark, when an electric motor first starts up it will draw max amps. When this occurs heat is generated in the stator or windings, more so than during normal run conditions. Over time, this increased temperature will break down the varnish on the windings and will degrade the insulation on the internal wiring thus causing a short. This does apply to 120v motors as well. This is why on large motors there is usually a Soft Start installed which lessons the heat and strain on the mechanical components on the motor which in turn extends the life. And yes, bearings will wear out over time as well but a significantly cheaper repair than replacing the entire motor in most cases.

[harold1946]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

Then how do explain the web page at the Attwood site which essentially states that modifications will void the warranty?

I suggest you call Atwood and have them explain it to you.
In actuality the furnace is not being modified. The system is an aftermarket add on, and does not alter the furnace.
Think if it like adding a receiver hitch to a truck. Does that void the truck warranty?

[pianotuna]

Hi,

If you have a 30 amp service then the cheap heat won't meet your needs. If you have a 50 amp service--then there is no need for multiple cords to run heaters.

I have a 30 amp service, so I do indeed have to run more than one shore power cord.

I suggest you install the biggest possible unit, since you have already proved that the smallest one and the medium size one are NOT going to meet your real life needs.

Interesting about the start up and electric motors. Does it apply to A.C. (120 volt) motors too?

So the bearings in a motor never wear out?

2-MTnesters wrote:
Over Thanksgiving We used our Montana as an additional bedroom for relatives that were in visiting from Texas. We had the furnace set at 65f during the day and 70f at night. We also had 2 space heaters running continuously in addition to the gas furnace. 1.5 30lb tanks of lpg were consumed during this time frame. Where we live I pay right at $25 to fill a 30lb cylinder. At the rate of consumption of 1.5 tanks of propane per week it would only take 13.5 weeks to have spent $500! For me this is a no-brainer, I would rather spend $500 on the Cheap Heat system and have it paid for in 1 season than to have to run numerous small electric heaters in addition to running the gas furnace and having to worry about running out of gas! Speaking only for myself, the Cheap Heat system is what I'm going to purchase for my camper because it is more practical for MY needs. I don't want electric baseboard heaters or stand-alone electric heaters in the middle of the floor, I don't want multiple extension cords run from the rig to the power pedestal and I also want heat in the basement to keep water lines, drains and valves thawed like the factory system is intended to do. Also, if the furnace blower has to run longer with the electric add-on that's fine, the life of an electric motor is NOT shortened by running, it's shortened by the max amp draw of the start condition.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Then how do explain the web page at the Attwood site which essentially states that modifications will void the warranty?

[SWD]

Going to get one of these for our fiver.

Costco

[2-MTnesters]

Over Thanksgiving We used our Montana as an additional bedroom for relatives that were in visiting from Texas. We had the furnace set at 65f during the day and 70f at night. We also had 2 space heaters running continuously in addition to the gas furnace. 1.5 30lb tanks of lpg were consumed during this time frame. Where we live I pay right at $25 to fill a 30lb cylinder. At the rate of consumption of 1.5 tanks of propane per week it would only take 13.5 weeks to have spent $500! For me this is a no-brainer, I would rather spend $500 on the Cheap Heat system and have it paid for in 1 season than to have to run numerous small electric heaters in addition to running the gas furnace and having to worry about running out of gas! Speaking only for myself, the Cheap Heat system is what I'm going to purchase for my camper because it is more practical for MY needs. I don't want electric baseboard heaters or stand-alone electric heaters in the middle of the floor, I don't want multiple extension cords run from the rig to the power pedestal and I also want heat in the basement to keep water lines, drains and valves thawed like the factory system is intended to do. Also, if the furnace blower has to run longer with the electric add-on that's fine, the life of an electric motor is NOT shortened by running, it's shortened by the max amp draw of the start condition.

[harold1946]

Effy wrote:
Man you guys get all "heated up" over this don't you?

Not me, I am having fun. Pianotuna is supplying the entertainmemt.
:B

[Effy]

Man you guys get all "heated up" over this don't you?

[Lady_Fitzgerald]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Lady,

I invite you to comment on which of my observations is wrong. I would appreciate being corrected if a statement is false.

As to inconsequential--that is a matter of opinion and my opinion is just as valid as yours.

I now have data on a cold soaked rv that suggests that about 45 amps are needed to warm it up from -20 (-f f) to +20 C (68 f) taking about 9 hours and that at least 25 amps are required to keep it warm when the ambient temperature is -25 C (-13 f).

Anyone contemplating the 'cheap heat' system should wire it for the largest possible amperage design, if they camp in weather that is truly cold.

Merry Christmas.

Lady Fitzgerald wrote:

Hi pianotuna,

What bothers me is every one of your complaints have been debunked by several people in past threads yet you persist with the same inconsequential or inaccurate arguments.

For the last time (hopefully):

(Alleged)Disadvantages:

Can not fail over to furnace - I already told you all you need is a two stage thermostat. I also told you the reason one isn't included is not everyone will need one.

Can not replace all heating needs in the 30 amp flavor - Not everyone camps in -20° weather like you do. Most people won't even see 32° while camping. Most fulltimers go south for the winter.

Probably can not replace all heating needs in the "medium" flavor - Same as the previous response.

Can not be used with 15 amp power. Seriously? You would be hard pressed to run ANY adequate electric heater on a 15A service without turning everything else off unless it's a really tiny RV.

Can not be run to act as a helper to the furnace. Again, seriously? It's not designed to do so nor should it be. What you are suggesting is no more sensible than running a toad in gear while towing it. If you need higher heat output, get one that is big enough.

takes 5 hours to install (and that is if you have done more than one). So what if it takes that long (and I doubt that anyone who has done it before would need that long). Once installed, that's it; you're done.

Costs $500 smackers plus install (so in my opinion to call it cheap heat is an insult) - You get what you pay for. You want upfront cheap, stick with your portables. You want quality, convenience, and a non-ghetto look, you will have to pay for it. As far as "cheap" goes, not everyone wants "cheap". Campers with no access to propane or fulltimers who either can't or don't want to lug propane tanks around frequently will find not having to do so to be well worth the upfront cost.

requires a good working knowledge of electricity to diy. Yet again, seriously? You are grasping at straws again. Using that "logic", people who don't know how to fix their cars shouldn't buy them. If you don't have the knowledge to properly and safely install something, pay someone who does.

voids the warranty on the furnace - Completely wrong! Besides being against Federal law here in the USA to void the warranty (don't know about up in CA but most purchasers will be from here) unless it can be proven to have damaged the furnace, Cheap Heat will replace the factory warranty should that happen.

the three flavors are identical--just wired differently to allow different output levels - And this is a problem how? It actually makes the product less expensive because the manufacturer can maintain a lower parts inventory, manufacturing is simplified, any repairs are simplified since the same parts work on all "flavors", one can "upgrade" at a latter date for much less that replacing the entire unit, etc. Btw, there are more than three "flavors".

the 30 amp flavor does only a few more watts than a heat strip in an air conditioner - Not all ACs and Heat Pumps can have heat strips installed. Also, the fans in the ACs will still run at full speed whereas the fan on the furnace in a Cheap Heat installation will be lower.

the furnace fan gets a lot more hours on it. - Not much more than if the furnace itself had been running, possibly less if you count total fan revolutions since it runs at a lower speed when on electric heat. And so what if the fan does get more hours? A separate fan will rack up hours so we are talking about a tradeoff here.

has the same noise level as the propane furnace. - Again, wrong. The fan runs slower and there is no burner burning so your claim is completely false.

Break even even for a full time RV'er is several years of use. - So what? How long before one reaches break even depends on one's usage, the cost of propane and electricity, etc. Some will reach the break even point before others. Some may never reach a break even point but will still want the convenience of not having to deal with portable heaters, don't want the ghetto look of portable heaters, prefer the comfort of central ducted heat, don't want to or can't lug around propane tanks, etc.

Again, I and others have pointed these things out to you multiple times before. It's alright to express opinions but all you have to offer are fallacies aggravated by your insistence on repeating them after others have pointed out you are wrong.

[LennyH]

I would simply But a plug in Heater from Wal-Mart or where ever and it would produce 1500 watts of heat at a cost of =

1.5Kw X .1113Elec. Cost = 16.6 cents an Hour X 12 Hrs a day = around $ 2 a day X 30 days = $ 60 a month.
Now that Cheap Heat

Lenny H :Z