class A safety

[bmwdriver2019]

good morning all
im pretty new to rving and learning as much as i can , im a retired bmw tech with 20 years under my belt . and proud of it, so i know pretty much the auto business
my fiancée and i on my retirement purchased a 2014 winnebgao vista 35f from our camping world , they were totally awesome, the motorhome only had about 6k miles , we purchased it in Jan of 2020, then covid hit
on our first venture out or as my fiancee called it a " shake down " cruise , and it was , up to 50 mph it was smooth sailing ,above 50 , it was like driving in a tornado , back of the speed , smooth as silk, after speaking with many people who have the same exact motorhome as we ,i come to find out that a rear track bar and front steering dampener is needed to correct this issue, and one person stated, i can bet it will fix your problems , for they had the same issue as many other people did , well, we had the items installed and it was smooth up to 65 mph , we would not drive normally faster than 55/60 mph for safetys sake , this is NOT a bmw ,lollol, nor handle like one
my issue is how foes ford and winnebago and others get away with concerns for safety on the f53 chassis as they do , the f53 chassis is a cookie cutter chassis where one size fits all, and from hearing and reading what people do to correct the safety issue of the f53 chassis dilemmas , where people have the white knuckle affect as if they were flying in a plane for the first time , im very curious of how the NHTSA would feel on non corrected safety and handling issues of the class a motorhome ??/ as not being a person who cares for ford in any way , but we bought the motorhome for the winnebago name , defiantly not ford , for i do feel they do as little as possible in pretty much all they do
having many friends who are seasoned rvers and alot more experience than i and some actually been a cdl truck driver in the past actually prefered the gm work horse chassis liked it entirely better for the way it handled, it did not have the safety and handling issues of the f53 chassis does, why this is allowed and nobody questions it as it do ,,,,,,, it affects numerous rv makers chassis , and the basic body doesnt matter who made it , its the chassis improvements that change the handling ,its nothing to the body , i do believe there surely needs to a higher standard than whats there , and since ford right now has a monopoly on class A chassis they are doing as they do with as little as possible which is par for the course with them , i do believe IF GM was manufacturing class A rv chassis , to a degree it would be to a higher standard than what is there now

[bmwdriver2019]

to be honest here as i critically am , why does the issue that many motorhomes experience across the board , no matter who made the coach , i have spoken to people where the alighnment was dead on perfect, nothing worn, missing , mis adjusted , and the one thing that did actually repair the issue was a rear tack bar.and its pretty much the same issue , driving over speeds of 50 mph, the coach drives like your in a tornado and its all over the road , after the addition of a rear track bar, its perfect ,no change was made to alignment settings , tire pressures, tire change , weight Distibution , this is my point, you people are i do believe not hearing me or im not explaining it , im sorry i even made a question and stated i have 20 years bmw experience, i was ase certified in bmw. bme e/v and bmw m performance , not bragging , just stating that im not green nor an idiot as some may believe, or think,

[LouLawrence]

BMW, not sure why you are not interested in listening to the good advice given. Just because you want someone to condem Ford foe something that's not their fault does not make your assumptions correct. If you like what you have you should get a proper alignment. If you are uncomfortable with the coach you now own you should get rid of it.

[bmwdriver2019]

you guys dont get it , to me its a common issue with the f53 chassis, im sorry i even said anything , with people coming back with sacastic replies , im not a two years old, im college educated and i dealt with bmw enginners in my day , and its funny how many people do actually agree with me, but i wanted a more professional look and i get replies like this, but i do see and know that there are numerous amounts of people who will never condemn the ford product no matter how bad it is

[way2roll]

If you took a BMW chassis and added a Sherman tank on top of it is BMW to blame because it handled poorly?

[oldave]

Maybe you should get BMW to make a chassis. :R

[Rick_Jay]

bmwdriver2019,

Reread dodge guy's post. He said his rig had all the added suspension bells and whistles when they bought it and it was still a handful. What fixed it was an PROPER alignment.

I like Nv Guy's analogy, too, and pianotuna's comment seems to be applicable for many rigs, especially gassers.

I just don't see how you can blame Ford when the vehicle owner does not verify that the alignment is correct per specs. Ford builds the chassis, but has no idea how much weight the coach builder is going to put on it, which can affect the alignment of the complete coach.

Weigh it fully loaded ready to travel, get front and rear axle weights, based upon these check tire pressures per the tire manufacturer and bring it to a good shop and have it aligned. Then and only then should you consider other "fixes", if needed.

That seems to be the overwhelming advice you've been given so far. Why not give it a shot? 🙂

~Rick

[bmwdriver2019]

Nv Guy wrote:
Blaming Ford is the same as blaming the lumberyard because your house isn't properly built.
As been said, get the rig weighed, and aligned by a competent alignment shop.

i get what your saying BUT ford built the chassis with out adding anything to prevent the issue the f53s are having, how many times i have read that a rear track bar had to be added to correct the issue , and on many coaches , not just mine or a few , ford does as little as possible ,
i stated that im a retired bmw tech not bragging but i do know cars , when a vehicle is fine up to a certain speed and anything over it it becomes a wild stallion, and its not a drive train issue, a vibration and or tire issue, nor an alignment issue , after the addition of the rear track bar, its smooth as silk ,why is that ,,,,,,,, and the coach has low miles,
what i dont get is basically every motorhome has the same configuration size wise , how som coaches dont et it and some get it bad is beyond me
i personally think that the person who owned my motorhome before we did , experienced the issue , and opted to get a 5th wheel , for it was hardly used in the time they had it

[Blackdiamond]

I test drove a workhorse (GM) chassis and didn't notice a difference from the ford.

[bmwdriver2019]

good morning people and to those who responded back to me ,thank you
butmaybe i stated my post wrong, what i am saying to my original post is that
1- why is all that is needed to correct a severe safety issue ok with many people , if ford was to build cars that way ,im sure very few people would buy them , in many cases , a rear track bar is needed to correct the issue we had experinced as well as many others, its like driving in a tornado as many stated, flying in a plane for the first time and hanging on for dear life , the coach DOES NOT weave in and out of the lane , im saying is how can ford actually state that this is actually safe and acceptable , imsurely not bragging that i was with bmw for many years, just using as a point that i know the auto business and there is a big difference in size and weight ,why is the rear track bar being added on the coach at time of production , they are producing the chassis , its not the rv builders responsibility , ford knows this is an issue for they added larger sway bars to correct this plus a few more issues,
as i read in a post, ford has always had a problem with the handling of the f53 chassis , ,i see this as being a problem ,i guess its ok for ford dance around the issue and at the cost of safety ,
kinda brings me back to when ralph nader went after GM with the Corvair issues , which he wrote a book, UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED

[pianotuna]

Hi,

You may want to check the wheel base to length. 55% is ideal; 50% is Not going to give you good results.

[Nv_Guy]

Blaming Ford is the same as blaming the lumberyard because your house isn't properly built.
As been said, get the rig weighed, and aligned by a competent alignment shop.

[RLS7201]

As Doug & Dodge Guy suggested. Start with the toe in. I spent my younger years in the front end business and toe in is a major player in driveability. I suggest 5/32" as a good compromise between driveability and tire wear.
I purchased my F53 in Tucson, AZ. and it was a struggle getting it back to K.C., MO. The toe in was Zero. I set it to 5/32" and it was drivable with one hand.

Richard

[dodge_guy]

My 2012 we bought used in 2019. It had all the suspension stuff don’t prior to us buying it. Hellwig front and rear sway bars, front and rear sumo springs, front and rear Koni FSD shocks. And a Blue Ox True Center steering stabilizer and tires that were 2 years old. All of this and the ride home from the dealer was exhausting. After extensive research I checked the front toe and it was tied out by 3/8 of an inch which explained why it was back and forth in the lane. They had it aligned when they bought the tires but they didn’t do it correctly! I set the toe to 3/16 toe in and it made it drive like a 22k lb sports car. You could one hand it at 70 if you wanted.
So definitely get the alignment checked at a reputable shop that will actually do the alignment properly and not fudge the numbers to make it look like it was done.

[Rick_Jay]

bmwdriver2019,

I think Doug pretty much nailed it with his response. If I may, I'd like to add a bit more.

First, I have to say I had a chuckle when I read your username. Have you ever driven a high center of gravity vehicle before? LOL You're right. The motorhome is NOT a BMW, but perhaps you're so used to that snappy handling of a sport sedan, the difference was excpetionally unnerving. A full size van doesn't handle like a luxury sedan, either. One has to understand the type of vehicle they're driving. An RV is not only longer and therefore susceptible to bow-wave pushes from trucks and such, but also has a very high center of gravity which impacts handling.

Remember, Ford makes the chassis and when it leaves Ford, that's all it is. It's up the RV Manufacturer to put the house on it. The same chassis might be the base for possibly dozens of various floorplans. Each floorplan might load that chassis differently, depending upon where water/waste tanks are located, appliances, the number and size of slideouts, the number of AC's on the roof, etc. There are a lot of variables in the equation. Not to mention that in some cases, manufacturers do a very poor job of distributing the weight side to side or front to back, and have even been known to sell models which exceed the axle weight ratings set by the manufacturer. Or, sell a rig where it's dry weight is just under that of the specs, so as soon as you put people, food and some water in it, you're over loaded. Remember that more weight behind the rear axle lifts weight off the front axle, and that can affect handling. That's not Ford's fault, it's that of the RV manufacturers.

Along with what Doug said, I'd recommend that you get your rig weighed. Have it fully loaded to travel with food, fuels, water, people & stuff. Best time to do it is when you're heading out on your next trip, right after you fill the tanks (fuel & water). Four corner weights are best, but even front and rear axle weights are a good start. From those weights, make sure your tires are inflated to the proper pressure for the load they are carrying on each axle. Dealerships & tire stores tend to inflate tires to the maximum pressure on the sidewall of the tire. I think for the vast majority of RVs, that results in tires that are over-inflated for the weight they are carrying which can result in a harsh ride and harder to control vehicle. So, if you haven't done that yet, find some truck scales nearby and have it weighed.

Then, as Doug mentioned, have it aligned.

If it still has some issues, there are things you can do and devices you can add/upgrade which can give some additional help. There are numerous posts on this forum which address that.

I really don't see what you described as being a safety issue on the level at which NHTSA should get involved. As I mentioned above, Ford has no idea how the chassis will ultimately be used by the RV manufacturer. How could they be made to be responsible? Now if there were a lot of accidents and deaths involving the F53 chassis that were attributed to a poor suspension design, that would be different. But I don't believe there are. Or, if the issue was brake calipers locking up and fuel rail clips leaking gasoline (which WERE an issue for Workhorse), then those items need to be addressed by the manufacturer. And they were. But holding Ford responsible for less than ideal handling on a vehicle which probably isn't set up properly (meaning to Ford's specs) to begin with? Kinda unfair to do that.

By the way, my rig is on one of those "Workhorse" chassis's. We've had it since it was new. It handled pretty well, better than I expected it to, and I was a newbie to the RV world when we bought it. But after the first year or two, I did opt to upgrade to better shock absorbers for better control. They definitely helped and it was worth the expense at the time. Back in the 2000's, Ford and Workhorse had to continually make improvements to gain buyer support. The competition there was to everyone's advantage. That said, the Workhorse Chassis generally cost anywhere from $2-$4,000 (memory is a bit foggy there, but I think that was about it) more than a comparable Ford unit, and the majority of people and dealerships opted for the Ford chassis. This was for buyers who either didn't understand the difference, didn't care, or just wanted to spend the extra dollars.

Ok, much longer than I intended. Hopefully this helps put some perspective on things for you. I can say that the more you drive the rig, the more comfortable you get doing so.

Good Luck and let us know how you make out with any improvements.

~Rick

[dougrainer]

I have been an RV tech for 44 years. 25 as a Master RV Technician. Ford Class A chassis have ALWAYS had handling problems. It usually boils down to a simple fix. GET IT ALIGNED BY A QUALIFIED ALIGNMENT FACILITY. Balanced Tires and CORRECT Alignment fixes Ford handling issues. The Steering dampner does NOT fix handling issues on Ford Chassis. BUT, once the alignment is done, a Steering stabilizer is a good thing to have. IF not aligned correctly, a Steering system cannot fix mis alignment issues. It can actually aggravate the issues. Doug