Dealer never put TITLE in my name, am I stuck??

[TL_Wanderer]

In 2015, after years of health problems, I bought a used motor home in the hopes of traveling while I still had time. I cashed in my retirement account to do it. No sooner had the ink dried then I was sick again. Bought online (never again, lesson learned) paid in full. The title, after being delayed all summer, was supposed to be given to the driver - it wasn’t. The dealer stopped returning my calls.
The motor home sat in a rented site since then and I spent most of my time too sick to care. In fall ‘18 a mechanic picked it up to give it a full checkup and inspection so it would be ready to travel at last.
Then I found out I was stuck. I have insurance on it, but no inspection without a Registration and I can’t get that without the Title.
I am in Pennsylvania, I bought the vehicle from a dealer in Florida, and the motor home may (or may not ) have been owned by someone in Georgia, but I don’t have their name.
PA told me to talk to Florida DMV- FLDMV said there was a temporary registration in 8/15 but no Title was ever created, so I should go back to the dealer. Dealer said the salesman doesn’t work here anymore and stopped returning my calls.
Now what? I’m feeling rather hopeless. I don’t know if my health will hold out for a legal battle, but I’m disabled and every penny I had is in that used motor home.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Tracey

[tropical36]

JoeH wrote:
Yeah, here in FL, they sort of push the title. I always opt for a paper title. It does take a few weeks to get one vs instant for e title.

Now, if the OP ever returns, he could check status at FL DMV VIN check

AGain, you can get an instant paper title at one of the DMV locations for an extra $10 (it used to be $7), like we always have, when dealing directly with the seller. Last time, was with a consignment dealer, who had the seller's title in hand.

[JoeH]

Yeah, here in FL, they sort of push the title. I always opt for a paper title. It does take a few weeks to get one vs instant for e title.

Now, if the OP ever returns, he could check status at FL DMV VIN check

[dougrainer]

oldave wrote:
Since I had the brilliant idea to google E title that's what I did .

Here's what came up , interesting questions and answers .

https://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/E-Title-FAQ.htm

Good info. It appears Texas and Florida have e titles. But, having the paper title makes things a lot easier. Doug

[ferndaleflyer]

This I know for sure, I have vehicles registered in 3 states, WV, MD, and NC and all 3 of those have PAPER titles. Lots of misinformation and also some correct information as well above but would be pretty simple to get that straight IF the OP has any paper work from where he got it. If not there are several other options. I notice that he has not come back on here to offer info on his progress.

[oldave]

Since I had the brilliant idea to google E title that's what I did .

Here's what came up , interesting questions and answers .

https://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/E-Title-FAQ.htm

[wildmanbaker]

OK eveyone....., the OP has gotten lot of good advice. Lets let him breath and try to resolve his problems.

[dougrainer]

oldave wrote:
I was just in town in TX registering 3 of my vehicles and I asked the girl
about titles and she called them " E titles " . They do them all the time and
will print you a paper one for a fee . She said Florida should be able to send
an E title to Pennsylvania as long as the fees , penalties and taxes were
satisfied .
She thought he should deal first with Florida .

Doug , I guess I don't know what a MSO is .

I'm an old guy , I like paper , I can hold it in my hand that's the way it
should be .
I also believe there was a paper title at Bank of America in No Carolina
and what they really meant was we are not going to find it and send it to you .
They will just generate a new one and I can get it at my local tax office .
The tax people assume we all understand all this new stuff , WRONG .
It all sounds so good but if one little thing goes wrong you may not live
long enough to find someone that can straighten out the computer .
I hope the OP can find that person .

Ray

Sorry, I still think you are confused. a TITLE is like having CASH. You cannot just go to a Gov and say here is my fee payment, print me a Title. HOW would the Government KNOW if there was a Lien on that vehicle if you just had a Title in the "computer"??? That would negate the VALUE of a Title. If you could do that, ANYBODY could go and get a printed title and then SELL YOUR vehicle, since they have the paper title. Doug

MSO, is Manufacturers Statement of Origin. NO NEW vehicle comes with a title. Titles are a function of Government. Manufacturers issue MSO's. Doug

PS. until the past few years in Texas, you purchased a new vehicle for cash, you would get the MSO and then YOU had to go to the local Gov authority to do the paperwork to get the Title. Now, Texas requires the selling Dealer to get the Title work done and you do not get the MSO anymore.

[okhmbldr]

We haven't heard from the OP recently, but my biggest question is; without the title and registration, how is he purchasing a tag each year?
Seems to me that it has never been registered in his home state. I'm guessing if he does get the original title he will be faced with a lot of late fees and penatlies.
His best shot now is to forget the dealer and do a new title from a storage lien (in Oklahoma it's called a title 42) Cost is a few hundred dollars and takes about a month.

[G-Dad]

My bet is that the OP never responds to this thread - any takers?

[oldave]

I was just in town in TX registering 3 of my vehicles and I asked the girl
about titles and she called them " E titles " . They do them all the time and
will print you a paper one for a fee . She said Florida should be able to send
an E title to Pennsylvania as long as the fees , penalties and taxes were
satisfied .
She thought he should deal first with Florida .

Doug , I guess I don't know what a MSO is .

I'm an old guy , I like paper , I can hold it in my hand that's the way it
should be .
I also believe there was a paper title at Bank of America in No Carolina
and what they really meant was we are not going to find it and send it to you .
They will just generate a new one and I can get it at my local tax office .
The tax people assume we all understand all this new stuff , WRONG .
It all sounds so good but if one little thing goes wrong you may not live
long enough to find someone that can straighten out the computer .
I hope the OP can find that person .

Ray

[Walaby]

I love how people automatically accuse the dealer of fraud and we're only getting one side of a story from someone who admittedly waited 4 years to process the paperwork.

Sorry about the health issues OP, but you've gotten some pretty good suggestions here... I'd recommend pursuing them vice accusing dealer of fraud, suing, hiring lawyers etc...

Do you at least have a bill of sale?

Mike

[tropical36]

We've been a resident of FL for over 25yrs now and have always had a paper title. Didn't know, there was any other way, in fact. The last vehicle we bought, was the coach in 16.
As per usual, we paid something like an extra $10 for getting an instant title at a DMV branch.

[Sam_Spade]

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Welcome to the electronic age and banks with branches all over the country. Florida has had electronic titles for many years and, as I said before, you can pay extra and get a paper title if you want one.

THIS likely is not helpful to his situation AT ALL.

The previous title might not even have BEEN in Florida at all.....in any form.

He needs to DO SOMETHING NOW. The longer he waits, the harder it will be.

His home state DMV should be his first contact.
If they tell him to contact Florida, then he should DO that.

IF.....he has absolutely no paper work proving that the transaction took place....then he probably IS screwed and needs a lawyer.

That's it.
What others have done in different circumstances makes NO difference.

[westernrvparkow]

Can't speak for all states, but in Montana and every other state I have lived in, the dealer does not file any paperwork when they buy or take a vehicle in trade. They get the title from the previous owner (or the lien holder if the state is one where they finance company holds the title until the debt is cleared) and they complete the paperwork and send that title with proper assignment and the appropriate paperwork to the state and a new title in the name of the new owner is issued.
The problem here is the OP bought out of state. The dealer in this situation just completes the assignment information on the old title and gives or sends it to buyer. It is the buyer's responsibility to register and complete the transfer (often involving paying sales tax) in their state. The dealer's state DMV will have no record of the transfer.
It is also common for the dealer to not have the title available at the time of sale. They may have traded for the vehicle that had a lien and are waiting for that financial institution to forward them the title. The title might be held by the dealer offsite. The title might be held by the dealer's bank as collateral and isn't released until the dealer makes a payment. In all those instances the title would be sent to the customer after the sale.
It's been FOUR years and just now is the customer looking for the title. The dealer likely will claim (rightly or wrongly) they sent it to them 4 years ago. They may not want to get involved with chasing down a title on a transaction they completed years ago. Depending on the laws in the state, they may not even be required to keep documentation that they could use to prove whether or not they sent the title (certified mail receipt etc) after 4 years.
Put yourself in the dealer's shoes. How much effort would you put into finding something for someone who bought something from you 4 years ago and they are just now saying they never got it? What if getting a replacement title means the dealer has to call someone they bought it from 4 years ago and start explaining why they need them to apply for a new title? Wouldn't you as the person who traded in that RV four years ago think something unsavory was in the works? It is likely this is a can of worms the dealer has no interest in opening.

[rgatijnet1]

Welcome to the electronic age and banks with branches all over the country. Florida has had electronic titles for many years and, as I said before, you can pay extra and get a paper title if you want one. I also said that you can go to ANY DMV office as they all have access to the same "electronic title" on record and can print you out a copy at any time. They also have records as to whether or not a lien is on the vehicle from a bank. Apparently when a lien is placed on a vehicle it is filed and entered in to the records electronically. The bank that placed the lien must have access to the Florida DMV, and can release the title without going through the hassle of sending something by mail. Way back when, most bank branches did not hold a paper title. It was sent to the home office, which may be in another state. Now it is all done electronically in seconds instead of days/weeks.
When I sold a vehicle, that electronic title is changed to the new owner's name, etc and remains in the Florida electronic file as a permanent record. If the new owner wants a paper title today, or sometime in the future, all he needs to do is go to any DMV office and get it printed out, for a small charge.
It is really no different than renewing your registration online. The internet has made it unnecessary to go to any DMV in Florida unless you feel the need to go wait in line or if you are registering an out of State vehicle for the first time. Then they need to verify the VIN.