Feb-15-2018 01:01 AM
Feb-16-2018 08:18 AM
Feb-15-2018 03:57 PM
Feb-15-2018 03:01 PM
klutchdust wrote:toedtoes wrote:
RVs will sell for what people are willing to pay for them. Unlike a car, no one looks at buying an RV as a necessity. So they aren't going to shrug and say "well I got to have it, so I'll have to pay the going rate".
For me, if the concern about depreciation is that big of a concern, then you shouldn't buy.
Better is to weight the cost against the joy of using it. If it costs you $50k and you use it 2 weeks per year is it worth it? How many years would you need to own and use it to make that $50k worth it?
One year of ownership - you could have saved a lot of money on that 2 week trip and headache of having to sell it afterwards.
Ten years of ownership - that's much more realistic.
My motorhome must be stored at my home or I wouldn't own it. Monthly storage was not an option. I use mine for family travel and my racing adventures. IF I was going to use it a few times a year i wouldn't own it, i would rent a real nice piece, spend a thou a week if that what it costs and be done with it. No insurance etc. And yeah, you fix it it when it starts to rattle loose.
Each trip I take there is something to tighten, glue, clean or inspect, these are by no means maintenance free. I have watched extremely expensive Class A's wither away from neglect.
But it's my bed, my food, my home away from home, I love this.
Feb-15-2018 02:59 PM
westernrvparkowner wrote:toedtoes wrote:I guess you could always take the salespeople and finance people to court. I suspect you will have a tough task convincing a judge and jury that a RV salesperson is a financial expert upon who's advice your late father based his decisions.westernrvparkowner wrote:toedtoes wrote:So are you saying his poor decisions are all the fault of the RV salesman and finance man? Did they drag him off the street, kicking and screaming and force him to sign those papers?D.E.Bishop wrote:
How come with a very high credit score a down of 15 to 20 percent is suggested and yet folks still owe more than the used vehicle sales prices after two years. I am thinking I should make at least 25 to 50 percent down not 3 percent like guys have said they were allowed to put down.
So it's just like pre-housing bust, no down for folks with really bad credit and then they find out they can't continue to pay and want a prospective buyer to bail them out.
My dad wanted a big 5th wheel. He already had a TH, but wanted to upgrade for his warped reasons. This was right after the stock drop and housing fiasco so he didn't have a lot of cash on hand. But his credit was excellent. He used the TH as a down payment and got $300/month payments. After about 1-1/2 years, he couldn't drive the big massive truck anymore, so decided to sell the 5er. He couldn't sell it for what he owed. He traded the truck in for a used dakota and sent the 5er to a consignment shop. They sat on it for over 6 months. I kept telling him to talk to a laywer and default on the loan. Finally, he said "stop making the payments" so I cancelled them for him. Two weeks later he died.
My siblings decided that they were going to default on the loan after his death. I had to explain to them that they couldn't do that. When they found out from the estate attorney that I was telling them the truth, they finally (after a good year plus) got off their butts and got the 5er sold at a loss.
I think my dad was convinced that he could enjoy this thing for the rest of his life and then the balance due would be taken out of the estate. Unfortunately for him, he lost enough in the stocks that he didn't have the monthly dividends to afford those payments anymore and got in a bind.
I suspect the salesman and RV finance guys push this idea. And few people can see down the road far enough to realize "but"...
Actually, it worked out exactly like he thought. He got to use the RV, and all the balances due did come out of his estate. He apparently had the net worth to pay off his obligations on time as he agreed, but was unwilling to actually sell some of those stocks that were no longer throwing off adequate dividends.
Personally, I find it to be morally repugnant when someone refuses to pay debts they freely incurred because it is no longer convenient. Not paying debts because you do not have the money is one thing, not paying them because you don't want to part with the money is far different.
That is NOT what I said. I explained how my dad became underwater with his RV. Had his health not deteriorated, his plan would have worked. But his health was eating away at what principal he still had. As long as he was alive, his medical needs took priority and that was going to put him under within a year.
My comment about the salesmen and finance people stands - they will encourage and push unhealthy finance deals to make the sale. My dad had the intelligence but not the willingness to see through it for his own selfish reasons. But there are people who do not have the intelligence to understand the numbers and they rely on the "experts" to properly explain it to them. And they get in a bad deal when those "experts" fail in that.
There is a very select group of professionals who are legally responsible for the advice they give. Lawyers, physicians, CPAs and licensed financial brokers are among the most common. Vehicle salespeople. not so much. What would you have suggested the salesperson do in your father's situation? Gather a complete set financial statements? Require him to get a doctor's certification and approval to purchase, since it was his health that ultimately failed? Even you said that at the time of purchase his investments were generating adequate returns to satisfy the financial costs of his purchase. Why would the salesperson have greater knowledge than your father of the fact that your father's investments would falter? And you also have not claimed he had diminished capacity at the time he made the purchase, and if that was the case, shame on his immediate family for not intervening and taking steps to prevent him from squandering his wealth. That pretty much means the fact of the matter is your father either made a bad decision, or a decision he later regretted and there really is no one to blame but him.
Feb-15-2018 01:36 PM
toedtoes wrote:
RVs will sell for what people are willing to pay for them. Unlike a car, no one looks at buying an RV as a necessity. So they aren't going to shrug and say "well I got to have it, so I'll have to pay the going rate".
For me, if the concern about depreciation is that big of a concern, then you shouldn't buy.
Better is to weight the cost against the joy of using it. If it costs you $50k and you use it 2 weeks per year is it worth it? How many years would you need to own and use it to make that $50k worth it?
One year of ownership - you could have saved a lot of money on that 2 week trip and headache of having to sell it afterwards.
Ten years of ownership - that's much more realistic.
Feb-15-2018 01:06 PM
toedtoes wrote:I guess you could always take the salespeople and finance people to court. I suspect you will have a tough task convincing a judge and jury that a RV salesperson is a financial expert upon who's advice your late father based his decisions.westernrvparkowner wrote:toedtoes wrote:So are you saying his poor decisions are all the fault of the RV salesman and finance man? Did they drag him off the street, kicking and screaming and force him to sign those papers?D.E.Bishop wrote:
How come with a very high credit score a down of 15 to 20 percent is suggested and yet folks still owe more than the used vehicle sales prices after two years. I am thinking I should make at least 25 to 50 percent down not 3 percent like guys have said they were allowed to put down.
So it's just like pre-housing bust, no down for folks with really bad credit and then they find out they can't continue to pay and want a prospective buyer to bail them out.
My dad wanted a big 5th wheel. He already had a TH, but wanted to upgrade for his warped reasons. This was right after the stock drop and housing fiasco so he didn't have a lot of cash on hand. But his credit was excellent. He used the TH as a down payment and got $300/month payments. After about 1-1/2 years, he couldn't drive the big massive truck anymore, so decided to sell the 5er. He couldn't sell it for what he owed. He traded the truck in for a used dakota and sent the 5er to a consignment shop. They sat on it for over 6 months. I kept telling him to talk to a laywer and default on the loan. Finally, he said "stop making the payments" so I cancelled them for him. Two weeks later he died.
My siblings decided that they were going to default on the loan after his death. I had to explain to them that they couldn't do that. When they found out from the estate attorney that I was telling them the truth, they finally (after a good year plus) got off their butts and got the 5er sold at a loss.
I think my dad was convinced that he could enjoy this thing for the rest of his life and then the balance due would be taken out of the estate. Unfortunately for him, he lost enough in the stocks that he didn't have the monthly dividends to afford those payments anymore and got in a bind.
I suspect the salesman and RV finance guys push this idea. And few people can see down the road far enough to realize "but"...
Actually, it worked out exactly like he thought. He got to use the RV, and all the balances due did come out of his estate. He apparently had the net worth to pay off his obligations on time as he agreed, but was unwilling to actually sell some of those stocks that were no longer throwing off adequate dividends.
Personally, I find it to be morally repugnant when someone refuses to pay debts they freely incurred because it is no longer convenient. Not paying debts because you do not have the money is one thing, not paying them because you don't want to part with the money is far different.
That is NOT what I said. I explained how my dad became underwater with his RV. Had his health not deteriorated, his plan would have worked. But his health was eating away at what principal he still had. As long as he was alive, his medical needs took priority and that was going to put him under within a year.
My comment about the salesmen and finance people stands - they will encourage and push unhealthy finance deals to make the sale. My dad had the intelligence but not the willingness to see through it for his own selfish reasons. But there are people who do not have the intelligence to understand the numbers and they rely on the "experts" to properly explain it to them. And they get in a bad deal when those "experts" fail in that.
Feb-15-2018 12:10 PM
westernrvparkowner wrote:toedtoes wrote:So are you saying his poor decisions are all the fault of the RV salesman and finance man? Did they drag him off the street, kicking and screaming and force him to sign those papers?D.E.Bishop wrote:
How come with a very high credit score a down of 15 to 20 percent is suggested and yet folks still owe more than the used vehicle sales prices after two years. I am thinking I should make at least 25 to 50 percent down not 3 percent like guys have said they were allowed to put down.
So it's just like pre-housing bust, no down for folks with really bad credit and then they find out they can't continue to pay and want a prospective buyer to bail them out.
My dad wanted a big 5th wheel. He already had a TH, but wanted to upgrade for his warped reasons. This was right after the stock drop and housing fiasco so he didn't have a lot of cash on hand. But his credit was excellent. He used the TH as a down payment and got $300/month payments. After about 1-1/2 years, he couldn't drive the big massive truck anymore, so decided to sell the 5er. He couldn't sell it for what he owed. He traded the truck in for a used dakota and sent the 5er to a consignment shop. They sat on it for over 6 months. I kept telling him to talk to a laywer and default on the loan. Finally, he said "stop making the payments" so I cancelled them for him. Two weeks later he died.
My siblings decided that they were going to default on the loan after his death. I had to explain to them that they couldn't do that. When they found out from the estate attorney that I was telling them the truth, they finally (after a good year plus) got off their butts and got the 5er sold at a loss.
I think my dad was convinced that he could enjoy this thing for the rest of his life and then the balance due would be taken out of the estate. Unfortunately for him, he lost enough in the stocks that he didn't have the monthly dividends to afford those payments anymore and got in a bind.
I suspect the salesman and RV finance guys push this idea. And few people can see down the road far enough to realize "but"...
Actually, it worked out exactly like he thought. He got to use the RV, and all the balances due did come out of his estate. He apparently had the net worth to pay off his obligations on time as he agreed, but was unwilling to actually sell some of those stocks that were no longer throwing off adequate dividends.
Personally, I find it to be morally repugnant when someone refuses to pay debts they freely incurred because it is no longer convenient. Not paying debts because you do not have the money is one thing, not paying them because you don't want to part with the money is far different.
Feb-15-2018 11:57 AM
Feb-15-2018 11:31 AM
toedtoes wrote:So are you saying his poor decisions are all the fault of the RV salesman and finance man? Did they drag him off the street, kicking and screaming and force him to sign those papers?D.E.Bishop wrote:
How come with a very high credit score a down of 15 to 20 percent is suggested and yet folks still owe more than the used vehicle sales prices after two years. I am thinking I should make at least 25 to 50 percent down not 3 percent like guys have said they were allowed to put down.
So it's just like pre-housing bust, no down for folks with really bad credit and then they find out they can't continue to pay and want a prospective buyer to bail them out.
My dad wanted a big 5th wheel. He already had a TH, but wanted to upgrade for his warped reasons. This was right after the stock drop and housing fiasco so he didn't have a lot of cash on hand. But his credit was excellent. He used the TH as a down payment and got $300/month payments. After about 1-1/2 years, he couldn't drive the big massive truck anymore, so decided to sell the 5er. He couldn't sell it for what he owed. He traded the truck in for a used dakota and sent the 5er to a consignment shop. They sat on it for over 6 months. I kept telling him to talk to a laywer and default on the loan. Finally, he said "stop making the payments" so I cancelled them for him. Two weeks later he died.
My siblings decided that they were going to default on the loan after his death. I had to explain to them that they couldn't do that. When they found out from the estate attorney that I was telling them the truth, they finally (after a good year plus) got off their butts and got the 5er sold at a loss.
I think my dad was convinced that he could enjoy this thing for the rest of his life and then the balance due would be taken out of the estate. Unfortunately for him, he lost enough in the stocks that he didn't have the monthly dividends to afford those payments anymore and got in a bind.
I suspect the salesman and RV finance guys push this idea. And few people can see down the road far enough to realize "but"...
Feb-15-2018 11:21 AM
Feb-15-2018 11:10 AM
D.E.Bishop wrote:
How come with a very high credit score a down of 15 to 20 percent is suggested and yet folks still owe more than the used vehicle sales prices after two years. I am thinking I should make at least 25 to 50 percent down not 3 percent like guys have said they were allowed to put down.
So it's just like pre-housing bust, no down for folks with really bad credit and then they find out they can't continue to pay and want a prospective buyer to bail them out.
Feb-15-2018 10:52 AM
bukhrn wrote:klutchdust wrote:X-2 mine will be a pile of dust when I'm through with it, no matter what it's depreciated, it's paid me back 10 times that.
I never gave depreciation much thoughtwhen purchasing my used Cambria. I purchased from a private seller in Mn. and I live in Ca. Exactly what I wanted and his out of pocket upgrades sweetened the deal.
I don't trade off my vehicles very often so depreciation wasn't a consideration nor did I look at my rig as an investment.I give all my vehicles top of the line maintenance and when the time comes I get what it's value is. Even considering the fuel mileage. At 8.5MPG after 30K miles it's still better than any hotel i ever stayed in. I know when the linens were changed, the food is good and it's just plain fun being in it on trips.
I would purchase used. Many of the warranty bugs have been repaired, the value is there because of the depreciation hit the original owners took.
I would not purchase a warranty. A Ford chassis and the V-10 will run 300K miles easy with proper maintenance. Save the money and use it on a reputable mobile RV mechanic. I am a mechanic by trade and use mobil mechanics on some of my projects .
Hope this helps.
Feb-15-2018 10:05 AM
DrewE wrote:Unlike automobiles, NADA and similar guides use depreciation schedules, rather than actual sales data, to come up with those book valuations. There isn't enough volume of sales data to make any sales based analysis statistically valid.Savary Phil wrote:
Anyone have a view on whether the NADA price guide is anywhere close to the actual value/purchase prices paid for used motorhomes? They seem somewhat high to me, but just starting to look at moving from our current 5th Wheel to a 26-28 foot Class C.
Only a very, very rough guide. The transaction volume is hardly enough to get a reasonable average, and very much of the value depends on how well maintained the RV has been (vs. things more easily quantifiable like maker and year and model and mileage).
Feb-15-2018 09:07 AM
Savary Phil wrote:
Anyone have a view on whether the NADA price guide is anywhere close to the actual value/purchase prices paid for used motorhomes? They seem somewhat high to me, but just starting to look at moving from our current 5th Wheel to a 26-28 foot Class C.
Feb-15-2018 08:28 AM
klutchdust wrote:X-2 mine will be a pile of dust when I'm through with it, no matter what it's depreciated, it's paid me back 10 times that.
I never gave depreciation much thoughtwhen purchasing my used Cambria. I purchased from a private seller in Mn. and I live in Ca. Exactly what I wanted and his out of pocket upgrades sweetened the deal.
I don't trade off my vehicles very often so depreciation wasn't a consideration nor did I look at my rig as an investment.I give all my vehicles top of the line maintenance and when the time comes I get what it's value is. Even considering the fuel mileage. At 8.5MPG after 30K miles it's still better than any hotel i ever stayed in. I know when the linens were changed, the food is good and it's just plain fun being in it on trips.
I would purchase used. Many of the warranty bugs have been repaired, the value is there because of the depreciation hit the original owners took.
I would not purchase a warranty. A Ford chassis and the V-10 will run 300K miles easy with proper maintenance. Save the money and use it on a reputable mobile RV mechanic. I am a mechanic by trade and use mobil mechanics on some of my projects .
Hope this helps.