Engine swap.

[brokendown]

I have been searching for a gasoline to electric conversion for my RV. I have a 2019 32' Thor ACE with a Ford V10. Carrying 80 gallons 480 pounds of fuel and around 200lbs for the tank. Not sure what the weight of battery's would be after swapping them with a fuel tank. Has anybody seen or hear of a Ford V10 swap to electric?

[valhalla360]

carringb wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
California would be OFF the list. California is now cutting back electricity and asking for voluntary shut downs of electricity AND mandatory shut downs in certain areas. When I see these reports, WHAT about the People and Companies that rely on ELECTRIC vehicles in those areas in California????

California doesn't have an electricity shortage. They have a peak supply-demand imbalance. During they day, they can't use all the power they produce, and the peaking plants they rely on to balance the grid when solar and wind go offline can't ramp up fast enough.

EVs can help with load balancing by temporarily supplying the grid when the sun goes down, until the peaking plants catch up. But they also help by using more power during peak production, so that the slow-responding plants don't have to go offline.

https://thedriven.io/2019/09/20/nissan-inks-major-deal-with-french-utility-to-develop-vehicle-to-gri...

And let's not forget that many of the issue are due to simple inaction by PG&E. Lack of ROW maintenance, lack of power plant PMs, obsolete switchgear, failure to utilize smart-grid production agreements, failure to use predictive demand algorithms... I could go on. None of those issues would go away if everybody tomorrow traded their EV in for a gas-burner.

Lastly, EV owners are often a little better insulated against grid disruptions. Whenever planned blackouts are announced, there's a run on gas that often deplete the stations tanks. By the time they get refilled, the station doesn't have power to run the pumps anymore. EV owners can stay topped-off at home until up until the time power is turned off. And sometimes longer if they have their own array with off-grid support.

Translation: Yes, they have shortages but the shortages tend to be concentrated when people actually want power.

Most of the PG&E issues are a side benefit of the govt micromanaging the utility companies. Utility companies are allowed to hold monopolies (because it would be crazy to build half a dozen parallel power grids) but are then heavily regulated by govt commissions. Those commissions have to approve any PG&E price increases and because they have been subverted for the "green cause" are able to strong arm them into building inefficient solar production along with forcing them to buy from individual property owners solar systems at retail prices...then there is shock and horror when even with some of the highest prices in the country, they can't afford to do basic grid maintenance.

[carringb]

dougrainer wrote:
California would be OFF the list. California is now cutting back electricity and asking for voluntary shut downs of electricity AND mandatory shut downs in certain areas. When I see these reports, WHAT about the People and Companies that rely on ELECTRIC vehicles in those areas in California????

California doesn't have an electricity shortage. They have a peak supply-demand imbalance. During they day, they can't use all the power they produce, and the peaking plants they rely on to balance the grid when solar and wind go offline can't ramp up fast enough.

EVs can help with load balancing by temporarily supplying the grid when the sun goes down, until the peaking plants catch up. But they also help by using more power during peak production, so that the slow-responding plants don't have to go offline.

https://thedriven.io/2019/09/20/nissan-inks-major-deal-with-french-utility-to-develop-vehicle-to-gri...

And let's not forget that many of the issue are due to simple inaction by PG&E. Lack of ROW maintenance, lack of power plant PMs, obsolete switchgear, failure to utilize smart-grid production agreements, failure to use predictive demand algorithms... I could go on. None of those issues would go away if everybody tomorrow traded their EV in for a gas-burner.

Lastly, EV owners are often a little better insulated against grid disruptions. Whenever planned blackouts are announced, there's a run on gas that often deplete the stations tanks. By the time they get refilled, the station doesn't have power to run the pumps anymore. EV owners can stay topped-off at home until up until the time power is turned off. And sometimes longer if they have their own array with off-grid support.

[dougrainer]

Any Conversion would have to be for 49 states. California would be OFF the list. California is now cutting back electricity and asking for voluntary shut downs of electricity AND mandatory shut downs in certain areas. When I see these reports, WHAT about the People and Companies that rely on ELECTRIC vehicles in those areas in California???? Yes, Solar and Wind is the way to go:S. NO PROBLEMS WITH THAT:h Doug

[gbopp]

Bill.Satellite wrote:
I hope this is just a spammer testing the board as there is no possible conversion at this time.

Anything is possible. Maybe if Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos got together they could come up with enough money to do a conversion. 🙂

It would probably be cheaper to buy an electric truck and convert it to a MH than it would to convert a Thor Ace to electric.

[carringb]

Bill.Satellite wrote:
I hope this is just a spammer testing the board as there is no possible conversion at this time.

We aren't that far away though. Winnebago is now building an EV (powertrain by Motiv systems) F53, for "short-range, fixed-based" operations.

https://winnebagoind.com/products/specialty-vehicles/2019/all-electric/overview

This uses 3x BMW i-series batteries, which are rated up to 127kW/hr each. Still not enough for RV use, but the platform development is done.

https://www.motivps.com/products/epic-f59/

[Bill_Satellite]

I hope this is just a spammer testing the board as there is no possible conversion at this time.

[Lwiddis]

Designing an electric RV is one thing but building it will be really expensive.

[valhalla360]

A tesla battery bank runs about 1200lb...an RV will be drastically heavier.

There are some city buses that are electric but they have average speeds of around 20-25mph and peak speeds of 45mph. That means wind resistance is negligible and they get a lot of regeneration from braking.

Wind resistance increases with the square of speed, which means you will require drastically more power to run for even a couple hours and regenerative braking will be negligible (if you can even find a retrofit system). Then it will take a very long time to recharge (campgrounds, rightfully, will consider charging substantially more if they catch you charging the battery bank).

It's basically, not practical for a new build. For a retrofit, it's really bad.

[Dale_Traveling]

At the moment there is very little available to electrify an RV. The few heavy vehicle application currently available to the driving public are marketed for short travel distances applications (school buses, local deliveries,,,) and then requires several hours if not over night to recharge.

As mentioned poor aerodynamics of an RV is a very big down check for a potential application. The very small potential market, as compared to daily drivers, isn't helping either. Give it another decade or two. More likely to see a class B followed by a class C then maybe an A after the heavy truck market and acquitted recharging stations are firmly established.

[Ranger_Smith]

carringb wrote:
There was a company that build a batch of EV E450s to use for Long Beach public transit. It works ok for stop-and-go use, but the physics of pushing a brick wall through the air don't lend well for EV use on the highway yet. For a viable EV motorhome, the efficiency of the chassis and aero need to be dramatically improved, and even then, a lot of batteries won't go far.

The Thor ACE is one of the worst designs for reducing drag because of the "forehead". The Thor Vegas and Axis are the best, actually allowing Thor to meet greenhouse gas limits for a Class 3 chassis.

You ace with it's Cd around 1.3 and frontal area estimated to be 86 sq. ft, would require 160 kW (including ~10% for driveline and accessory losses) to drive down a flat highway at 60 MPH.

The battery back from a Tesla Model X has a capacity 100 KW/hr. You'd only be able to drive your motorhome around 37 miles before needing a recharge. Assuming no headwind, hills, using heat etc.

For a usable range, you would need about 10 Model x battery packs. But each one weighs 1200 pounds. And your existing cooling system might not be large enough to reject the heat of 10 of those packs charging simultaneously. Using a 240v charger (to utilize campground power), you'd need 120 hours to recharge your battery bank to drive another 370 miles. Plus you'r need a 2nd pedestal to power the house while your chassis charges.

So much for that idea

[carringb]

There was a company that build a batch of EV E450s to use for Long Beach public transit. It works ok for stop-and-go use, but the physics of pushing a brick wall through the air don't lend well for EV use on the highway yet. For a viable EV motorhome, the efficiency of the chassis and aero need to be dramatically improved, and even then, a lot of batteries won't go far.

The Thor ACE is one of the worst designs for reducing drag because of the "forehead". The Thor Vegas and Axis are the best, actually allowing Thor to meet greenhouse gas limits for a Class 3 chassis.

You ace with it's Cd around 1.3 and frontal area estimated to be 86 sq. ft, would require 160 kW (including ~10% for driveline and accessory losses) to drive down a flat highway at 60 MPH.

The battery back from a Tesla Model X has a capacity 100 KW/hr. You'd only be able to drive your motorhome around 37 miles before needing a recharge. Assuming no headwind, hills, using heat etc.

For a usable range, you would need about 10 Model x battery packs. But each one weighs 1200 pounds. And your existing cooling system might not be large enough to reject the heat of 10 of those packs charging simultaneously. Using a 240v charger (to utilize campground power), you'd need 120 hours to recharge your battery bank to drive another 370 miles. Plus you'r need a 2nd pedestal to power the house while your chassis charges.

[gbopp]

I've never heard of a swap for an electric motor. It sounds very expensive.
Just a guess but, the battery bank will probably weigh considerably more than a full fuel tank.
You could buy a lot of gasoline for the price of the conversion.
It does sound like an interesting project but, would it be practical or cost effective?