Europe's RV's

[tarnold]

Are these all wired 220V?

[W4RLR]

gonesouth wrote:
I've camped with two different families that bought rigs in the US and then imported them to Europe. Saved huge amounts of money, so I would think that importing from Europe would be financially prohibitive.

You would be right in that regard. Buying a new vehicle in Europe is very costly due to the added taxes and duties attached to NEW vehicles. However, there may be an advantage to buying in the US and then converting to Euro standards as the rig would be imported as a USED vehicle, where the taxes and duties are less.

[gonesouth]

I've camped with two different families that bought rigs in the US and then imported them to Europe. Saved huge amounts of money, so I would think that importing from Europe would be financially prohibitive.

[Dale_Traveling]

tarnold wrote:
OP here. Guess what I was getting at was what would it take to get one of "their" rv's to work over here?

A lot of money, time and effort. First problem will the roof AC will be 220 VAC. Replacement is going to cost maybe a bit north of $500. Microwave won't work, TV will be totally non-functional (different scan standard besides power). Electric water heat is out same for the fridge but swapping out the heating element should solve the problem presuming the new elements will fit. Also you'll need to replace the AC to DC convertor. All the outlets will have to changed out. Or you just find a 3600 watt for 30 amp or two 6000 watt step up transformers and never plug any locally acquired appliances or devices that can't take 220 VAC in to any of the outlets. All that is if the coach is equipped with what we normally see here in North America. I found a web site once of a modifier in the UK that will convert our rigs to their standards. The list of stuff to change was pretty long.

That is just to make it livable. To license and meet safety and pollution requirements is a whole different ball game. No guarantee the chassis and power train have identical cousins on this side of the pond which will make getting parts and service difficult. Plus not sure if a coach could fall into the Federal 25 year import ban. The pertinent text of the Code of Federal Regulations section 591.5 states:

"No person shall import a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment into the United States unless, at the time it is offered for importation, its importer files a declaration, in duplicate, which declares one of the following:

(i)(1) The vehicle is 25 or more years old."

Full text can be read HERE.

Best stick to a US made rig.

[crosscheck]

Kayteg1 wrote:
Why is 220V called single phase when it has two phases?

That would be the same dilemma why 240V is called 220
European RV are not as big as US models and I don't think too many of them have microwaves or electric coffee makers or AC.
3 amp at 230V will support almost 700W, so it adequate for most.

We spent 2 months last summer(Switzerland,France,Austria) in 52 different campgrounds and what I observed re: RV's,

1) Never saw a unit with A/C although most or all had fans

2) There was no individual serviced sites but electricity was provided by a power pedestal for up to 8 sites.(maybe more or less). Shore cords were long usually on some sort of a wheel and would travel over different sites to reach the pedestal.

3) Never heard a generator or saw a generator.

4) Never saw people watching TV or heard music. Most people were out socializing around a table doing a lot of talking or at the local campground restaurant/bar. There were virtually no fires.

Dave

[Kayteg1]

Why is 220V called single phase when it has two phases?

That would be the same dilemma why 240V is called 220
European RV are not as big as US models and I don't think too many of them have microwaves or electric coffee makers or AC.
3 amp at 230V will support almost 700W, so it adequate for most.

[jhilley]

MrWizard wrote:
in the USA the 'Nomenclature' is single Phase, and three Phase
there is NO 'two phase'
phasing is not the same as voltage difference
USA 240v/120v is single phase same wave form, the voltage is off a center tap at the transformer and there is ONLY ONE secondary winding/output, it is 240v across the winding, the neutral is the center tap it is ONE wave form always the same phase


i won't get into Eurpoean electric service

This is true. Always makes me wonder about people referring to 2 phase. One thing to note is that most 240 volt 50Hz connections in European campgrounds are only 3 amps and generally hidden behind a bush. European RVs come with very long shore cords and when you park, the first thing to do is hunt for the power receptacles.

[MrWizard]

in the USA the 'Nomenclature' is single Phase, and three Phase
there is NO 'two phase'
phasing is not the same as voltage difference
USA 240v/120v is single phase same wave form, the voltage is off a center tap at the transformer and there is ONLY ONE secondary winding/output, it is 240v across the winding, the neutral is the center tap it is ONE wave form always the same phase


i won't get into Eurpoean electric service

[DrewE]

Kayteg1 wrote:

DrewE wrote:
Probably the easiest would be to wire up a 50A plug converter. So long as the campground has a proper split-phase 50A socket, there is 240V between the two hot legs. The neutral line in this case would not be used. This adapter would not work with a 30A connection, even with a 30A to 50A adapter.

It might be possible, though I would not think it likely, that you may find some campgrounds where the two legs are actually two of the three phases of a 120/208 three phase supply, in which case the voltage between the legs would be 208V.

Not that easy.
US 120V comes from 2-phase 240V, while European 230V comes from 3-phase 380V.
In other words - US 240v is between hot and hot wire, while EU 230v is between hot and ground.
My limited knowledge about electricity would make me guess that resistors don't care about the phases, but anything else might.

From the view of the appliance, it's just single phase power. Neutral and hot are meaningless except in relation to ground, and indeed the European ground would be at the same potential as one of the legs (the neutral) rather than in between the two American hot legs. That makes no difference for the operation of any properly designed or functioning appliance.

Some things, particularly timing motors, would be affected by the difference in AC frequency.

[Canadian_Rainbi]

What the OP need is a 4,000 VA (Volt Amp) transformer, which will restrict him to 30 Amp service. These are fairly large and heavy. We see a few European RVs while traveling in Mexico. This is what they use. OR they just get a 120V battery charger and don't use any 240V appliances. Note that European TVs won't work in North America. They use a slightly different process for the picture. Or at least they used to.

Also many if not most European RVs don't have a direct connection for the black tank. They use a cartridge system which is removed to empty.

A final comment on AC power, which I think has already been mentioned, European alternating current us 50Hz not 60 that we use. This can cause problems with some items especially motors which may run slow.

And of course if it's British rig, everything is on the wrong side.

[RobertRyan]

45 Richochet wrote:
In some areas I guess but not all .Didn't see one slide out.

Pretty resistant to them. Now back to the Electrical Adaptor thread

[BigRabbitMan]

Remove 240 appliances and replace with NA appliances etc.

[Kayteg1]

DrewE wrote:
Probably the easiest would be to wire up a 50A plug converter. So long as the campground has a proper split-phase 50A socket, there is 240V between the two hot legs. The neutral line in this case would not be used. This adapter would not work with a 30A connection, even with a 30A to 50A adapter.

It might be possible, though I would not think it likely, that you may find some campgrounds where the two legs are actually two of the three phases of a 120/208 three phase supply, in which case the voltage between the legs would be 208V.

Not that easy.
US 120V comes from 2-phase 240V, while European 230V comes from 3-phase 380V.
In other words - US 240v is between hot and hot wire, while EU 230v is between hot and ground.
My limited knowledge about electricity would make me guess that resistors don't care about the phases, but anything else might.

[Kayteg1]

Now in case you'd like to to use 230V appliances in 120V house.
It will be much more difficult.
Usually that would require heavy and bulky transformers, although latest technology makes inverter converters much lighter. But those are not cheap.

[DrewE]

tarnold wrote:
OP here. Guess what I was getting at was what would it take to get one of "their" rv's to work over here?

Probably the easiest would be to wire up a 50A plug converter. So long as the campground has a proper split-phase 50A socket, there is 240V between the two hot legs. The neutral line in this case would not be used. This adapter would not work with a 30A connection, even with a 30A to 50A adapter.

It might be possible, though I would not think it likely, that you may find some campgrounds where the two legs are actually two of the three phases of a 120/208 three phase supply, in which case the voltage between the legs would be 208V.

The legal aspects of importing a European vehicle to the United States are rather more daunting than the electrical hookup, as I understand it approaching impossible if the vehicle is newer than 25 years old. I don't have any idea if a temporary importation is any simpler than a permanent one.