First Time Buyer...Updated 03/06/2006

[JohnnyT]

This post is intended to be helpful to the first time buyer of a motor home. For those of you who don't fall into that category or believe this post is incomplete or off the mark, do us all a favor, and enlighten us. If all you have to offer is criticism with no corresponding constructive comments, no one besides yourself will benefit from the experience. So please improve or expand on this post in a constructive way.

The issue at hand is how to select the coach that best matches your wants and needs and offers the most promise of not being a perpetual headache.

I think there is an order to thinking through selecting a motor home that best maps to your wants, needs, and pocketbook. There are a lot of issues to get at and understand. Going about the process out of sequence will circumvent some critical steps and increases the potential that in the end you will not be as satisfied with what you buy as you could have been. I've heard it said that nothing can be seen until seen in a form that you're looking for. You give yourself the edge by determining your wants and needs first, letting them guide you to the make and model of motor home. Focus on deal making after your prioritized wants and needs have lead you to the type, make and model, and level of fit and finish that best fit your pocketbook.

BUDGET
I believe the first step for most will be to establish a framework relative to cost: decide how much you want to spend, how much you can spend, and how much you are willing to spend. For the most part you can count on spending more that you initially thought. Knowing what the max you can spend is a place to start.

While the initial cost is a lot more than the tip of the iceberg, the cost of ownership and operation bear some thought as well. Gain some insight into annual insurance cost, maintenance, and storage fees. Start making a list of items that will be purchased to support the RV. Don't forget the dingy and associated costs if you're planning on dragging one around, tow bar, braking system, car insurance and registration. Think about chemicals, hoses, adaptors, critical spares, tools, as well as outdoor furniture, grill, mats, and kitchen gadgets, cleaning supplies, hooks, and toilet paper holder! Then add on the operating costs: fuel, camping fees, charges for radio, television, and telephone, etc.

I personally think it's a mistake to go into the process thinking you can always trade in or up. It's a costly strategy. Try to get it right the first time. For many, the choice will boil down to compromising what they want to fit with what they can afford. All the more reason to spend the time and energy to figure out what you want and need and then prioritize your selections to get what you can afford.

Once you have established a framework for purchase budget and ownership cost, use that frame work to construct the best coach that will fit into it. At this point in time you may have a gross idea of size diesel pusher or gas... new versus used. You may even have a specific manufacturer you're interested in. These choices, especially the make and model, ought to flow from your wants and needs.

WANTS AND NEEDS
Go to work figuring out what you want in terms of livability and travel-ability. A good place to start is deciding if you're going to be a parker or a driver. Most motor homes are better suited to one or the other. Coaches with lots of slides are terrific when parked, but coaches with fewer slides may seem roomier when driving down the road with the slides in. Things to think about if you're a driver include how much room there is to move around with the sliders closed, and access to such things as storage areas and facilities like the washer/dryer.

The next and crucial step is to figure out what you think you want for power train, chassis, floor plan, features, amenities, and gadgets. Look at a lot of coaches, even trailers, and see what combinations seem to fit your lifestyle the best. As you get immersed in the process, I think you will find some of your original thoughts will change. The following checklist will give you some things to consider. Keep in mind that the right coach is out there; it just takes hard work to find it.

Will you spend more waking hours driving or parked?
What features need to be accessible while driving?
How many people do you need to sleep?
Is a queen-sized bed appropriate?
How long will you be using the coach at a stretch?
(weekends versus long trips)
How much storage will you require?
How fussy are you about the quality of workmanship in furnishings?
How much counter space do you want in the kitchen?
How often will you use an oven or washer/dryer?
Will a dinette or table and chairs suit you best?
How much privacy do you want for the bathroom?
Does anyone require upgraded seats or bed?
Will you tolerate losing speed on hills?
Are you concerned about miles per gallon or emissions controls?
How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops?
How much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks?
Do you require pass-through storage for long items?
Do you want basement doors that open in a specific direction?
(to the side or up like a bus)
How important is soundproofing or insulation?
How important is entertainment, inside or outside?
How many televisions, and where?
Speakers or refrigerator in basement to use when camped?
Can you find the features you want in a used coach?

Livability... Casual Use to Full Timing

RESEARCH
Buying a motor home is easy... the hard part is selecting the one that will best fit your needs. Do a lot of looking and as much research as you can. Take notes about what you like and dislike in each coach you see. Do not accept that what you want is not available. After our first month of looking, we had a floor plan we liked but everything else was wrong. We almost bought that floor plan because we were beginning to think what we wanted was not available or economically attainable. Any fool can buy a motor home; the trick is not to be foolhardy about the process of selecting the one. Some people are smarter than we are; it took us months of intensive research, giving up every week end visiting dealers, hours of reading magazines, exploring all the internet sales sites, and forum surfing. In the end, we looked at 26 different models from 12 different manufacturers, and test drove most of them. We also visited a multitude of factories and found people to discuss ideas and assumptions. One thing to keep in mind, make sure that you adopt your own ideas and make your own priorities for features and functions. Others will have valuable insights, but those insights and perspectives will reflect their own priorities. As you listen, try to understand not only what they think is important, but also why. Get as many variant opinions as you can in arriving at your own conclusions. What's perfect for one can be a horrible mismatch for another.

There is no substitute for spending time in a prospective coach, visualizing daily routines in terms of workability and comfort and convenience... sit in every seating position, open and close everything that will do so, adjust anything that has an adjustment, especially the driver's and passenger's seats. Lie down on the bed, open up any convertible couches and test them for comfort. Walk through meal preparation and maneuvering around in the coach with a full complement of people and pets, both with sliders in and out. Go through the exercise both indoors and outdoors. Open the sliders and the awnings at the same time to check angles and clearances. Think through loading and unloading: is there enough space and is it easily accessible? See how cords and hoses roll in and out.

Do not expect that what you will get is any better than what you see in the showroom. So many times I got that response to an inquiry about a noticeable defect in terms of fit, finish, or operation. As you are deciding on the coach and examining the details of fit and finish, do not limit you looking to the interior. Look hard in all the equipment bays and in the engine compartment. A lot of unnecessary breakdowns are set up when the coach is mated to the chassis, look for hoses and wiring too close to heat source or that will rub, abrade, or get pinched, look for lapses in sealing seams. In other words, fit and finish has two flavors: cosmetic and functional. If what you can see looks slipshod, then what you can not see is not going to be any better.

Choosing Gasoline or Diesel Powered?

SELECTING THE DEALER
It seems that a lot of dissatisfaction that people experience lies at the doorstep of the dealer they choose. In other cases, I think some buyers have unrealistic expectations about how the dealer will react to their concerns and problems. Thorough vetting out of the dealer is of utmost importance. Talk to as many people as you can who have done business with the dealer. Also have some very frank discussions with your perspective dealer, starting with the salesperson, and then a review of your expectations with the salesperson and the sales manager together. Be specific, give examples, and require specific responses. Do not accept "You're in good hands All-State" responses.

TAKING DELIVERY
When you go to pick up your coach from the dealer have a thorough checklist of items to check. Do the inspection systematically. There are several lists already created that you can use as a starter. Here are a few thoughts.

„« Do not schedule your pick up of your new motor home on a Friday or a day before a holiday. That way the pressure to get it done will be lessened and there will be time for corrections to be made. Have extra time built into your schedule. Have a place to stay so there is no need to rush the inspection if you're picking up your coach remotely from where you live.

„« Make sure that all the documentation and manuals are present. Do an inventory and do not forget to get a list of all the serial and model numbers for all the warrantee registration. It's the job of the dealer to provide that.

„« Operate and test everything. Make sure you can do it yourself... and then do it, and have your companion do it. We got the in motion satellite and the home entertainment system; I am still the only one who can operate them...

„« Take notes of what you see that bothers you or questions that come to mind. If you don't get satisfactory answers to your question, just ask them again and again until you're satisfied. You have paid a lot of money for those answers.

„« Question anything you do not understand. Make sure you and spouse do not leave with any unanswered question... Nothing worse than to discover something and then hear the words, "I was wondering about that."


„« Do not assume anything has been checked or is working properly. Check them yourself, especially fluids and tire pressures... which means bring a suitable tire gauge. It would also be useful to have one of those indoor/ outdoor thermometers with a remote sensor to check air conditioner and heat performance, including the dash air.

„« If at all possible, go through the manuals and documentation before you do your acceptance inspection. Just take a couple of hours off in a corner; you will be amazed at the questions that will pop up. It's better to do that before you do your walk through.

„« Use one of the many cookbook PDA lists that are around. The best one I found was at http://www.rversonline.org/ArtFactoryPickup.html There is also a special section on air brakes on the rversonline site.

„« Do a test drive that will approximate how you will drive your motor home.

„« Go into the process expecting to have glitches and some your expectations not to be met. Focus on resolutions instead of recriminations. Don't let someone else's ignorance spoil what should be a very special day!!

OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
From my own experience and what insights I have gained from private discussions with a number of first time buyers, the really tough issue is nailing down your wants, needs, and priorities and then overlaying the price one will have to pay. In our case we spent more than we originally set out to spend, but less than I could have. Deciding which manufacturer was not the starting point, it was the place to end...

Here are some of our answers to the questions I posed above:

Will you be a driver or a parker... In our case we are drivers. We tend to drive a lot and never stay in one place for very long while others will pick a destination, go there and plant themselves for a period of time, then return home. We wanted the maximum of space in the coach when the sliders were closed which was a governing factor in determining floor plan and the number of sliders. We also wanted certain key storage areas accessible and wanted access to the washer/dryer with the sliders closed. We wanted to maximize the kitchen counter space and be able to use the seating area and table while underway or for those times we stop in route. So we opted for a dinette which has the advantage being able to convert into a sleeping position (albeit for a short person). We also preferred not to deal with the chairs while underway which have a tendency to want to move around if not securely strapped down.

In terms of the bathroom, we wanted the toilet area separate from the shower and sink. We wanted to be able to separate the bathroom from the bedroom and the living area for those times when there would be others on board besides my wife and me.

We also chose to eliminate the up-front TV for increased visibility and to avoid a source for bumping heads. We wanted it placed elsewhere in the coach and at eye level so we wouldn't crane our necks up to watch.

We needed a floor plan that would comfortably sleep 5.

How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops... how much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks... These are good issues to raise on forums; you will get a wide variety of answers. We arbitrarily decided we wanted a 1000 miles for fuel, and 3 to 5 days capacity for water and holding tanks.

It helps to be reasonable and recognize that it's better to start with the minimum you are willing to settle for and then the maximum you're willing to pay for. Be conservative in your estimates.

We wanted to have pass-through storage in the basement as well as sliding drawers, which eliminated some coaches including one that had our favorite floor plan in it. While you're thinking about storage, keep in mind there are different options for the type of doors used on basement storage. Aside from the conventional, there are bus style doors that cantilever up and out of the way, as well as side opening doors. Our coach has all three types.

We put a premium on insulation and the soundproofing of the coach when parked, so we paid attention to the specs and tested the noise level in the coach in terms of isolating the inside from the outside. We were focused on not being disturbed and not disturbing our neighbors. We wanted the coach to be as quiet as possible on the road as well as when parked.

We opted not to buy used, although there are many compelling reason to do so: initial cost and the potential that new coach bugs would be worked out. Part of our criteria was to bypass anything that had not had continual use, since disuse often accelerates the deterioration of such things as seals, hoses, belts and the like. In the end, we concluded we were unlikely to find a match for our wants and needs in a used coach and focused on going the new coach route. Once we decided we wanted a new coach, we soon discovered that it was going to require us to order one to get exactly what we wanted and would fit into our budget.

So we began to reduce the number of potential manufacturers from 12 down to 3 since the others did not offer what we wanted or their level of fit and finish wasn't acceptable to me. Having said that, I believe that with minor exceptions many of the manufacturers we deselected would have worked for us, had their offerings been a match to our wants and needs.

We placed a priority on which manufacturers would give us the most flexibility to make minor alterations to their standard fare; that got the list down to 2. In the end, we chose the one that gave us the most flexibility. Their reputation for warrantee support was also a determining factor, but any of the final three would have given terrific support based on their reputation.

In our case, we did not place a high premium on after sale dealer support. This is not a course I would recommend for every one but our situation was such that we were comfortable in taking on the responsibility of managing our service needs. It did take some work to establish a network of support once we bought. We have been fortunate to have had only one coach related issue, which was very minor. Other problems we have had were with the generator and our satellite system, where we dealt directly with the manufacturers with satisfactory results. We found both the coach manufacturer and the manufacturers of the specific components were very helpful in answering any questions that popped up.

When our coach was being built, I visited the factory to follow progress on the construction, timing the visit so I would be able to inspect what I was expecting in terms of wiring, plumbing, and interior construction. I was able to see our coach and other coaches down the line so I inspected each step of the build process.

This post will raise more questions than it answers which in part was the intent, and the offer up a process to get the answers...

If you interest is in Buying A Used Motorhome Here are Some Thoughts For First Time Buyers

Good luck in your odyssey it's a worthwhile journey.

JohnnyT

[Amberbunny]

Super post! If it isn't too long in the tooth to add my 2 cents . . .Due Dilligence, asyou captured it pays off thousands in the long run. Go to RV shows, subscribe to or buy several RV mags each month, visit several dealers, join forums such as these to read issues and solutions.

Price range is a great place to start. If you can afford 10K and under, and still use it . . .stop looking at 300K models. Get busy in the want ads.

Find out what 10K buys and keep you reye on want ads and dealers. I found dealers ran about 30 to 50% higher than want ads, and I never did have a good feeling the rig was reconditioned, or even inspected for that matter. I want to see a list of what was inspected and what was repaired/replaced. Don't show me a bogus checklist with OK next to every single thing!

Always check fluids and rubber on all used RV's. If you find the model you like but it has sat for three years . . . you will need all new rubber, adding an easy $1500 to base price. Probably want to replace all fluids as well.

Check it out from top to bottom, light that stove off, not just the pilot, fire up the AC and heat, run the CO detector, pump, flush toilet, run shower, etc. Use all lights and outlets.

Just a few items. And never count on any support post sale from a dealer. Its just better that way. You are never disappointed.

[Missing_Link]

Your post is one of the best. Unfortunately when I bought my motorhome built on the P30 chassis, I didn't realize I was buying a kit. To make it safe to drive at highway speeds is taking many hudreds and maybe thousands of dollars. It needs aftermarket bellcranks to help the steering, new front springs to eliminate airbag compensators, Heavey duty steering stabilizer to keep passing pickups from blowing me into the next lane. I couldn't beleive the positive battery cable was 18' long. Chevy actually admits that in some instances, one push of the Aux. start button could cause the the solenoid to weld the contacts and cause one or more cables to melt. I know ,I have the parts to prove it.
Your article should be published for everyone to read.

[TUFAW]

I agree with everything you have said and it applies to whatever RV a person might buy. I would add that people might consider surviability in an accident and fire safety. If you have a choice and can choose between an RV constructed with a fiberglass shell and one that is steel choose steel.

Rob

[Thunderman]

Great Post. I have a couple more questions. We are in the process of getting our first new MH. The dealer wants to know if we want undercoating put on and and if we want a sealant put on the outside which is supposed to last 5 years without waxing. Are these any good; are they needed; are they worth the money?

[sportsman14221]

Thanks for the insight.

[outnabout]

Weight rating and configuration of a lift would have a great deal to do with how you bring your bike along. A bike that size will have considerable weight. I use a dolly to tow my Mazda and I must say I would much rather be flat towing. So, I would think a full-blown trailer would really be a pain. One thing, it makes your rig verrrry long and restricts where you can take it and what to do with it when you get there is another thought. Both a motorcycle and a toad are going to be quite cumbersome. That said, I would think for ease and safety, a trailer is your best bet.

[GotTheBug]

Thank you very much.

[45Gunner]

Excellent article. My wife and I are first time buyers and have done just about everything you have suggested. We have visited countless RV shows and have a ton of brochures that we have requested by way of the Internet. We have educated ourselves to the point we think we know what we need/require and are on our way to visit the dealer that carries what we want so we can see the RV hands-on. The one topic that I need help with is the toad. We had originally thought that we would tow our Nissan Xterra, but have reconsidered as this vehicle weighs in at over 4000lbs empty. The question is what type of toad to purchase and should it be trailered or towed. We also plan on taking our Harley Davidson which will factor into the decision making process. Should we put the Harley on a lift behind the coach and tow a toad or should we just spring for a trailer to haul both the motorcycle and dinghy? All opinions welcomed and thanks in advance.
45Gunner

[CAVWPGUY]

Wow! My wife and I just bought our first motorhome. We got a used Rexhall Vision V-23 with 14k miles, in great condition, and perfect for what we want to do. I'm now trying to get it all cleaned up and fix minor things that I want to get done. I think I'll do another post asking for fix it advice. We are sooooo happy with it. Cheers!

[ElecMoHwk]

I don't think you made a bad decision, just keep on them until it's right. You just put down a good few dollars on a major purchase, and a home for the most part. They're job is to make it 100% or better so you don't have to worry.

[busymom1]

Thank you for your post I printed out your pre-acceptance checklist before we picked up our new motorhome on Saturday. I is a 2005 Winnebago Voyage 33V on a workhorse chassis. The PDI guy did not expect us to ask him to demonstrate how to put the pop outs in manually. He got the book out and read the directions. Then my husband and him each got a crank tried to find the nut and just started turning we heard a couple of clunks. After about 15 minuets and still nothing the PDI guy tried to put them in with the electric motor. Now that would not bring it in then he got a panic look on his face and got the manger who called a service tech and tried to tell us that the slide needed to go in exactly at the same rate on each side. That it was not calibrated anymore. Which did not make sense because it never moved. They were going to have to call the slide manufacture on Monday. A few salesman kept trying to figure out what was going on then one on them figured out that my husband and the pdi man were turning it in the wrong direction the started turning the other way and one side started to go in and the other side my husband just pushed it in (not cranking at all). Then we were in the office waiting to talk to the finance man and they came in and told us they took out a motherboard from another motorhome (exact kind) and now the motor works. We went out there and tried it and it sound like the motor is only pulling in the one side and dragging the other. We took it to the service dept this morning Sorry about the long story. Has anyone heard of this and should I check anything on the motorhome when we get it back. P.S. yes we still bought it I hope we did not make a mistake maybe we should have ran out.

[Skip_and_Norine]

This forum is an awesome source of information for my wife and I, both age 49, who will soon be "cashing out" and going fulltime. We're looking primarily at Class A coaches, but our interest has been drawn lately to Class C.

We're fairly sure we want a coach about 35' in length and we MUST have a full-sized bed (which seems to rule out many Class C's); yet we're undecided about the gas vs diesel matter. While we know that diesel coaches seem to pull better (our toad will be a 2004 Scion), we also know that they tend to be more expensive in terms of repairs and maintenance and seem to require more fuel care. We believe that the workhorse chassis with a V10 may be a viable gas option.

Would any of you be kind enough to offer us your opinions and experiences (if any) regarding the "Class A vs Class B" and the "Gas vs Diesel" issues? I'm sure that we aren't the first ones to touch on these issues, and I apologize if we've "revived" a dead thread, but we'd REALLY appreciate your help!

We've visited a local (Tampa Bay area of Florida) dealer (Lazy Days RV Center), test driven a 35' Class A, and have done extensive reading on the internet.

Thanks!

[dllfo2]

I have a hot one. I have asthma. We bought a used 2002 Monaco Diplomat from DeMartini's in Grass Valley, Ca. Let me say up front, I think they are best RV dealership in the world. Let me continue with our problem.

IF YOU HAVE ANY BREATHING PROBLEMS, MAKE SURE THE PREVIOUS OWNER OF THE USED COACH WAS NOT A SMOKER.

My wife and I test drove the coach and she complained of a cigarette
smell. I did not smell it and told her it was probably the chemicals
they used to clean it. Timmy DeMartini was with us (Tim's son) and he
said he did not know.

Making a long story short, I am "new" to asthma, just having been
diagnosed about 6 months ago. Things in the air, cigarette smoke,
whatever...I don't always recognize what it is that makes it so hard
to breathe. My mistake.

I LOOKED AT THE AD, IT DOES NOT SAY "NON SMOKER". THAT IS YOUR CLUE
TO AVOIDING THE SITUATION WE ARE IN. Not only do you need to pay
attention to what the unit has, but look for what it doesn't say.
I did not pay attention to that part and the dealership put plastic
over the carpets to protect them. DeMartini was not hiding anything
from the public, they are better than that...and they will work with
me if I can't use the coach. My wife has cleaned it 3 times now, with
the 6 brush carpet cleaner thing. It is supposed to clean everything
out of your carpet, especially allergens. We hope we can get all the
smell, etc. out.

Something I learned buying large boats...take the ad with you and look
at every single thing advertised on the unit. Make sure it works.

Buy from a good dealer. We had a dealer in Sacramento in the late
80s or early 90s who was convicted of fraud, etc. He went to jail for
a year or two and is now in business again, under a different name.

I want to emphasize again that DeMartini's are the best dealership I
have ever had the pleasure to deal with. They have offered to work
with us on resolving the problem. Even if we have to sell this coach
and get another one, they will try to "make it right".

Take care and read the ads carefully.......Dave

[lkbgsu86]

This is a great post for first time RV buyers. I would recommend it for anyone buying their first motorhome. I think we just got lucky when we bought ours- we went straight from a tent to a 32' Class A motorhome, and couldn't be happier.

The only research we did ahead of time was looking at floor plans and pictures on manufacturer web sites and we went to only one dealership. We did know it needed to be smaller than 35' because that is the limit in many of the state parks we go to on weekends, but we wanted it to be comfortable enough for 2 week trips. We started out thinking we wanted a Class C about 6 ft smaller than the Class A we bought- the salesperson really wanted us to look at a Class A for comparison and we really liked them much better. He really explained a lot of the features of the various models and let us spend lots of time checking everything out- we were on the lot several hours and narrowed it down to 2 models. The salesperson also gave us great prices on both without any prompting from us (although we really didn't know it at the time- I found out from reading this forum that the discount we got was what we should have gotten). The dealership also let us test drive both and told us that they would want us to spend a night in the one we purchased in their "campground" on the lot- this was invaluable for us since we really didn't know anything about how things worked in an RV when we bought it. They spent a lot of time before they left us for the night walking us through the operation of everything and were very patient.

I certainly don't recommend our approach as ideal, I think we were extremely lucky to end up with a great dealership. If we had seen this post before we bought we would have been a lot more prepared and not had to depend on dumb luck!

[PaulNWAS]

I am looking for my second Class A moving up from 90 Southwind to DP. I ahve a very short time frame in which to make decision and buy due to forthcoming business trip that will take me for WA to FL to OH to MO and back to WA. I am considering about 4 different used coaches and would like to know peoples experiences with these units:

98 or 99 Tradewind 38' - Freightliner 300 Cat Allison tranny
99 Sarfari Zanzibar 39 ' Magnum chassis 330 cat
2000 Sarfari Cheetah Ditto

all appear to be comparably equipped similiar miles.
I can find very little about the Safari line and don't see many people on the forums listing them as their coach.
Any help appreciated
Paul