First Time Buyer...Updated 03/06/2006

[JohnnyT]

This post is intended to be helpful to the first time buyer of a motor home. For those of you who don't fall into that category or believe this post is incomplete or off the mark, do us all a favor, and enlighten us. If all you have to offer is criticism with no corresponding constructive comments, no one besides yourself will benefit from the experience. So please improve or expand on this post in a constructive way.

The issue at hand is how to select the coach that best matches your wants and needs and offers the most promise of not being a perpetual headache.

I think there is an order to thinking through selecting a motor home that best maps to your wants, needs, and pocketbook. There are a lot of issues to get at and understand. Going about the process out of sequence will circumvent some critical steps and increases the potential that in the end you will not be as satisfied with what you buy as you could have been. I've heard it said that nothing can be seen until seen in a form that you're looking for. You give yourself the edge by determining your wants and needs first, letting them guide you to the make and model of motor home. Focus on deal making after your prioritized wants and needs have lead you to the type, make and model, and level of fit and finish that best fit your pocketbook.

BUDGET
I believe the first step for most will be to establish a framework relative to cost: decide how much you want to spend, how much you can spend, and how much you are willing to spend. For the most part you can count on spending more that you initially thought. Knowing what the max you can spend is a place to start.

While the initial cost is a lot more than the tip of the iceberg, the cost of ownership and operation bear some thought as well. Gain some insight into annual insurance cost, maintenance, and storage fees. Start making a list of items that will be purchased to support the RV. Don't forget the dingy and associated costs if you're planning on dragging one around, tow bar, braking system, car insurance and registration. Think about chemicals, hoses, adaptors, critical spares, tools, as well as outdoor furniture, grill, mats, and kitchen gadgets, cleaning supplies, hooks, and toilet paper holder! Then add on the operating costs: fuel, camping fees, charges for radio, television, and telephone, etc.

I personally think it's a mistake to go into the process thinking you can always trade in or up. It's a costly strategy. Try to get it right the first time. For many, the choice will boil down to compromising what they want to fit with what they can afford. All the more reason to spend the time and energy to figure out what you want and need and then prioritize your selections to get what you can afford.

Once you have established a framework for purchase budget and ownership cost, use that frame work to construct the best coach that will fit into it. At this point in time you may have a gross idea of size diesel pusher or gas... new versus used. You may even have a specific manufacturer you're interested in. These choices, especially the make and model, ought to flow from your wants and needs.

WANTS AND NEEDS
Go to work figuring out what you want in terms of livability and travel-ability. A good place to start is deciding if you're going to be a parker or a driver. Most motor homes are better suited to one or the other. Coaches with lots of slides are terrific when parked, but coaches with fewer slides may seem roomier when driving down the road with the slides in. Things to think about if you're a driver include how much room there is to move around with the sliders closed, and access to such things as storage areas and facilities like the washer/dryer.

The next and crucial step is to figure out what you think you want for power train, chassis, floor plan, features, amenities, and gadgets. Look at a lot of coaches, even trailers, and see what combinations seem to fit your lifestyle the best. As you get immersed in the process, I think you will find some of your original thoughts will change. The following checklist will give you some things to consider. Keep in mind that the right coach is out there; it just takes hard work to find it.

Will you spend more waking hours driving or parked?
What features need to be accessible while driving?
How many people do you need to sleep?
Is a queen-sized bed appropriate?
How long will you be using the coach at a stretch?
(weekends versus long trips)
How much storage will you require?
How fussy are you about the quality of workmanship in furnishings?
How much counter space do you want in the kitchen?
How often will you use an oven or washer/dryer?
Will a dinette or table and chairs suit you best?
How much privacy do you want for the bathroom?
Does anyone require upgraded seats or bed?
Will you tolerate losing speed on hills?
Are you concerned about miles per gallon or emissions controls?
How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops?
How much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks?
Do you require pass-through storage for long items?
Do you want basement doors that open in a specific direction?
(to the side or up like a bus)
How important is soundproofing or insulation?
How important is entertainment, inside or outside?
How many televisions, and where?
Speakers or refrigerator in basement to use when camped?
Can you find the features you want in a used coach?

Livability... Casual Use to Full Timing

RESEARCH
Buying a motor home is easy... the hard part is selecting the one that will best fit your needs. Do a lot of looking and as much research as you can. Take notes about what you like and dislike in each coach you see. Do not accept that what you want is not available. After our first month of looking, we had a floor plan we liked but everything else was wrong. We almost bought that floor plan because we were beginning to think what we wanted was not available or economically attainable. Any fool can buy a motor home; the trick is not to be foolhardy about the process of selecting the one. Some people are smarter than we are; it took us months of intensive research, giving up every week end visiting dealers, hours of reading magazines, exploring all the internet sales sites, and forum surfing. In the end, we looked at 26 different models from 12 different manufacturers, and test drove most of them. We also visited a multitude of factories and found people to discuss ideas and assumptions. One thing to keep in mind, make sure that you adopt your own ideas and make your own priorities for features and functions. Others will have valuable insights, but those insights and perspectives will reflect their own priorities. As you listen, try to understand not only what they think is important, but also why. Get as many variant opinions as you can in arriving at your own conclusions. What's perfect for one can be a horrible mismatch for another.

There is no substitute for spending time in a prospective coach, visualizing daily routines in terms of workability and comfort and convenience... sit in every seating position, open and close everything that will do so, adjust anything that has an adjustment, especially the driver's and passenger's seats. Lie down on the bed, open up any convertible couches and test them for comfort. Walk through meal preparation and maneuvering around in the coach with a full complement of people and pets, both with sliders in and out. Go through the exercise both indoors and outdoors. Open the sliders and the awnings at the same time to check angles and clearances. Think through loading and unloading: is there enough space and is it easily accessible? See how cords and hoses roll in and out.

Do not expect that what you will get is any better than what you see in the showroom. So many times I got that response to an inquiry about a noticeable defect in terms of fit, finish, or operation. As you are deciding on the coach and examining the details of fit and finish, do not limit you looking to the interior. Look hard in all the equipment bays and in the engine compartment. A lot of unnecessary breakdowns are set up when the coach is mated to the chassis, look for hoses and wiring too close to heat source or that will rub, abrade, or get pinched, look for lapses in sealing seams. In other words, fit and finish has two flavors: cosmetic and functional. If what you can see looks slipshod, then what you can not see is not going to be any better.

Choosing Gasoline or Diesel Powered?

SELECTING THE DEALER
It seems that a lot of dissatisfaction that people experience lies at the doorstep of the dealer they choose. In other cases, I think some buyers have unrealistic expectations about how the dealer will react to their concerns and problems. Thorough vetting out of the dealer is of utmost importance. Talk to as many people as you can who have done business with the dealer. Also have some very frank discussions with your perspective dealer, starting with the salesperson, and then a review of your expectations with the salesperson and the sales manager together. Be specific, give examples, and require specific responses. Do not accept "You're in good hands All-State" responses.

TAKING DELIVERY
When you go to pick up your coach from the dealer have a thorough checklist of items to check. Do the inspection systematically. There are several lists already created that you can use as a starter. Here are a few thoughts.

„« Do not schedule your pick up of your new motor home on a Friday or a day before a holiday. That way the pressure to get it done will be lessened and there will be time for corrections to be made. Have extra time built into your schedule. Have a place to stay so there is no need to rush the inspection if you're picking up your coach remotely from where you live.

„« Make sure that all the documentation and manuals are present. Do an inventory and do not forget to get a list of all the serial and model numbers for all the warrantee registration. It's the job of the dealer to provide that.

„« Operate and test everything. Make sure you can do it yourself... and then do it, and have your companion do it. We got the in motion satellite and the home entertainment system; I am still the only one who can operate them...

„« Take notes of what you see that bothers you or questions that come to mind. If you don't get satisfactory answers to your question, just ask them again and again until you're satisfied. You have paid a lot of money for those answers.

„« Question anything you do not understand. Make sure you and spouse do not leave with any unanswered question... Nothing worse than to discover something and then hear the words, "I was wondering about that."


„« Do not assume anything has been checked or is working properly. Check them yourself, especially fluids and tire pressures... which means bring a suitable tire gauge. It would also be useful to have one of those indoor/ outdoor thermometers with a remote sensor to check air conditioner and heat performance, including the dash air.

„« If at all possible, go through the manuals and documentation before you do your acceptance inspection. Just take a couple of hours off in a corner; you will be amazed at the questions that will pop up. It's better to do that before you do your walk through.

„« Use one of the many cookbook PDA lists that are around. The best one I found was at http://www.rversonline.org/ArtFactoryPickup.html There is also a special section on air brakes on the rversonline site.

„« Do a test drive that will approximate how you will drive your motor home.

„« Go into the process expecting to have glitches and some your expectations not to be met. Focus on resolutions instead of recriminations. Don't let someone else's ignorance spoil what should be a very special day!!

OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
From my own experience and what insights I have gained from private discussions with a number of first time buyers, the really tough issue is nailing down your wants, needs, and priorities and then overlaying the price one will have to pay. In our case we spent more than we originally set out to spend, but less than I could have. Deciding which manufacturer was not the starting point, it was the place to end...

Here are some of our answers to the questions I posed above:

Will you be a driver or a parker... In our case we are drivers. We tend to drive a lot and never stay in one place for very long while others will pick a destination, go there and plant themselves for a period of time, then return home. We wanted the maximum of space in the coach when the sliders were closed which was a governing factor in determining floor plan and the number of sliders. We also wanted certain key storage areas accessible and wanted access to the washer/dryer with the sliders closed. We wanted to maximize the kitchen counter space and be able to use the seating area and table while underway or for those times we stop in route. So we opted for a dinette which has the advantage being able to convert into a sleeping position (albeit for a short person). We also preferred not to deal with the chairs while underway which have a tendency to want to move around if not securely strapped down.

In terms of the bathroom, we wanted the toilet area separate from the shower and sink. We wanted to be able to separate the bathroom from the bedroom and the living area for those times when there would be others on board besides my wife and me.

We also chose to eliminate the up-front TV for increased visibility and to avoid a source for bumping heads. We wanted it placed elsewhere in the coach and at eye level so we wouldn't crane our necks up to watch.

We needed a floor plan that would comfortably sleep 5.

How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops... how much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks... These are good issues to raise on forums; you will get a wide variety of answers. We arbitrarily decided we wanted a 1000 miles for fuel, and 3 to 5 days capacity for water and holding tanks.

It helps to be reasonable and recognize that it's better to start with the minimum you are willing to settle for and then the maximum you're willing to pay for. Be conservative in your estimates.

We wanted to have pass-through storage in the basement as well as sliding drawers, which eliminated some coaches including one that had our favorite floor plan in it. While you're thinking about storage, keep in mind there are different options for the type of doors used on basement storage. Aside from the conventional, there are bus style doors that cantilever up and out of the way, as well as side opening doors. Our coach has all three types.

We put a premium on insulation and the soundproofing of the coach when parked, so we paid attention to the specs and tested the noise level in the coach in terms of isolating the inside from the outside. We were focused on not being disturbed and not disturbing our neighbors. We wanted the coach to be as quiet as possible on the road as well as when parked.

We opted not to buy used, although there are many compelling reason to do so: initial cost and the potential that new coach bugs would be worked out. Part of our criteria was to bypass anything that had not had continual use, since disuse often accelerates the deterioration of such things as seals, hoses, belts and the like. In the end, we concluded we were unlikely to find a match for our wants and needs in a used coach and focused on going the new coach route. Once we decided we wanted a new coach, we soon discovered that it was going to require us to order one to get exactly what we wanted and would fit into our budget.

So we began to reduce the number of potential manufacturers from 12 down to 3 since the others did not offer what we wanted or their level of fit and finish wasn't acceptable to me. Having said that, I believe that with minor exceptions many of the manufacturers we deselected would have worked for us, had their offerings been a match to our wants and needs.

We placed a priority on which manufacturers would give us the most flexibility to make minor alterations to their standard fare; that got the list down to 2. In the end, we chose the one that gave us the most flexibility. Their reputation for warrantee support was also a determining factor, but any of the final three would have given terrific support based on their reputation.

In our case, we did not place a high premium on after sale dealer support. This is not a course I would recommend for every one but our situation was such that we were comfortable in taking on the responsibility of managing our service needs. It did take some work to establish a network of support once we bought. We have been fortunate to have had only one coach related issue, which was very minor. Other problems we have had were with the generator and our satellite system, where we dealt directly with the manufacturers with satisfactory results. We found both the coach manufacturer and the manufacturers of the specific components were very helpful in answering any questions that popped up.

When our coach was being built, I visited the factory to follow progress on the construction, timing the visit so I would be able to inspect what I was expecting in terms of wiring, plumbing, and interior construction. I was able to see our coach and other coaches down the line so I inspected each step of the build process.

This post will raise more questions than it answers which in part was the intent, and the offer up a process to get the answers...

If you interest is in Buying A Used Motorhome Here are Some Thoughts For First Time Buyers

Good luck in your odyssey it's a worthwhile journey.

JohnnyT

[Clark_and_Susie]

Mr.Mark,
It's a 99 Aerbus, 33' with 2 slides. It's really nice for us newbies. We're looking forward to a lot of fun. I'll probably be in here a lot with a ton of questions.

[Mr_Mark1]

Clark and Susie, what did you buy? Hopefully, your salesman will get well soon.

MM.

[Clark_and_Susie]

We're on our way from Flagstaff to pick up our first motorhome. I think that any of us who have survived the "buying a used RV experience" should get combat pay. We looked at 9 different dealerships from Flagstaff to Tucson. La Mesa in Tucson was the worst. We walked in with what we wanted and how much we'd pay for it. Don't these people ever LISTEN to what you're saying? It was one salesman after another(the vultures were circling) trying to get us to buy something that was over the price we'd budgeted, playing one game after another. By the time we got out of that place, we were both so angry that we just wanted to go home. Then we did get a unit in Mesa at Camping World. We were scheduled to do a walk through the following Friday. My husband took a half day off and we drove the 160 miles it is from our house to Mesa. The last thing tested on the unit was the generator. It didn't start. I thought - Of course it doesn't work. They promised to have it ready by Saturday morning, so we got a hotel. The next morning my husband called the dealership to inquire as to when we could pick the unit. The reply to his question was, "Huh? I don't know what you're talking about. We don't have anybody here to fix it until Monday." So here we are going back to Phoenix to try once again to pick it up....Oh, the last thing the salesman said to us after we'd bought it was, "I'll make sure that everything goes smoothly from here." We tried :h:hto call him when it wasn't going so smoothly but he called in sick. Is this normal?

[Mr_Mark1]

retiredlife wrote:
I just wanted to share my thoughts on some options that you may want to avoid in purchasing a travel trailer, motor coach, 5th wheel. etc. Two absolutely worthless items that I purchased with my motor coach was a central vac and bedroom ceiling fan.

The central vac with the attachments provided did little to clean the carpet. We ended up bringing our old trust worth stand up vacuum cleaner to clean the carpet after several trips with just the central vac. There are accessories that you can purchase that will add to the efficiency, however, the cost far exceed the value.

Our bedroom ceiling fan is a 12v fan (unlike the ceiling fan in our 5th Wheel which was 120v). I am on my second one and fighting to get it replaced again. Our first fan shaft wore out, and the current fan shaft has enough play that when you are sleeping in the quite of the night it will wake you up. It either squeaks, or rattles, depending on its mood. The technician told me that this is the way most of the 12v fans are. I am asking for a third replacement fan. Unless you are a very sound sleeper, you might want to avoid this one.

Our coach came with the central vac and I thought it would be something we really wouldn't use, but we love it!! Our works really well and I like the extra feature in the kitchen, the toe-kick lever where you can sweep dust and dirt into (has major suction!).

Also, our bedroom ceiling fan is quiet and works well. That is ONE feature that I would not be without as I like air flow (summer and winter).

Just my take...

MM.

[retiredlife]

riggarob wrote:

riggarob wrote:

jjsedona wrote:
First Time Buyers in Phoenix and elsewhere,

After the fact. After purchasing a used 2004 pusher from Beaudry RV in Phoenix and experiencing some very difficult situations and safety issues we checked with the Better Business Bureau to discover they had an UNSATISFACTORY rating with BBB.

Shame on us, unexperienced RV buyers who made a very big emotional compulsive mistake.
Please make sure to check with the BBB to find out how other consumer's rate the business you are dealing with.

JJsedona

Beaudry just got bought out by Lasy Days in FL. The problems may not go away. Robbie

As of last week, the Lasy Days buy-out may have fallen through. Robbie

Talked with the sales people about two weeks ago, and Beaudry had fired its Senior Mangers, half the work force, and is desperate for business. No surprise here. Trouble I see is Beaudry is still Beaudry, you don't change management attitude at the top when the top guy is still there.

[retiredlife]

I just wanted to share my thoughts on some options that you may want to avoid in purchasing a travel trailer, motor coach, 5th wheel. etc. Two absolutely worthless items that I purchased with my motor coach was a central vac and bedroom ceiling fan.

The central vac with the attachments provided did little to clean the carpet. We ended up bringing our old trust worth stand up vacuum cleaner to clean the carpet after several trips with just the central vac. There are accessories that you can purchase that will add to the efficiency, however, the cost far exceed the value.

Our bedroom ceiling fan is a 12v fan (unlike the ceiling fan in our 5th Wheel which was 120v). I am on my second one and fighting to get it replaced again. Our first fan shaft wore out, and the current fan shaft has enough play that when you are sleeping in the quite of the night it will wake you up. It either squeaks, or rattles, depending on its mood. The technician told me that this is the way most of the 12v fans are. I am asking for a third replacement fan. Unless you are a very sound sleeper, you might want to avoid this one.

[jrd_3686]

Johhny t

Thanks for taking the time to prepare your list. Being a first time buyer, I have taken notes and will put them to use.
Thanks again

[riggarob]

riggarob wrote:

jjsedona wrote:
First Time Buyers in Phoenix and elsewhere,

After the fact. After purchasing a used 2004 pusher from Beaudry RV in Phoenix and experiencing some very difficult situations and safety issues we checked with the Better Business Bureau to discover they had an UNSATISFACTORY rating with BBB.

Shame on us, unexperienced RV buyers who made a very big emotional compulsive mistake.
Please make sure to check with the BBB to find out how other consumer's rate the business you are dealing with.

JJsedona

Beaudry just got bought out by Lasy Days in FL. The problems may not go away. Robbie

As of last week, the Lasy Days buy-out may have fallen through. Robbie

[Fevermeister]

We bought a 1994 34 ft Newmar Dutchstar with 55,000 mile this past January for $22,000. We took it to the RV shop for a once over and to replace bad slide out seal and a few lights that weren't working. Then off to the Chevy dealer for a once over, new rear brakes, a bunch of new stuff in the front end. After a few short trips, we loaded up four adults , three kids and two dogs and headed for Disney World. We blew a tire south of Atlanta, which damaged the tire next to it, the spare was dry rotted. Spent $887 on tires. The next morning we heard metal on metal coming from the left front brake. After checking in at Fort Wilderness, found B and H RV repair who conveniently service RVs on site at Fort Wilderness. 2 calipers,2 rotors, 2 brake lines and a set of brakes later, we were ready to rock and roll( minus $1,488). I still feel used is the way to go, considering the vast depreciation. Just keep some cash near by for the unexpected. I have learned that I would not be happy without the slide out in the living area. If I trade in or up, I will look for a slide out in the bedroom as well.

[battleb]

"We'll be towing her '08 Jeep liberty, most likely on a dolly."

I have a 2007 Jeep Wrangler and I tow 4 wheels down. The Jeep liberty has basically the same drive train and it can be towed 4 wheels down, no tow dolly necessary. I also use a brake buddy (I bought it used) with a transmitter and receiver. It works great and I would recommend getting the transmitter/receiver and the breakaway switch.

[riggarob]

jjsedona wrote:
First Time Buyers in Phoenix and elsewhere,

After the fact. After purchasing a used 2004 pusher from Beaudry RV in Phoenix and experiencing some very difficult situations and safety issues we checked with the Better Business Bureau to discover they had an UNSATISFACTORY rating with BBB.

Shame on us, unexperienced RV buyers who made a very big emotional compulsive mistake.
Please make sure to check with the BBB to find out how other consumer's rate the business you are dealing with.

JJsedona

Beaudry just got bought out by Lasy Days in FL. The problems may not go away. Robbie

[setraveler]

We ahve been looking for two years..at new and used. The real difference between prices is narrowing..and perhaps there are some out there that the banks own...you might check that angle also. So far the new 2009 and possibly (year old now, 2008/maybe 07 seems better buy then used..as warranty can be had for four years. We looked at one 2005 that seemed really great until diesel mech bud looked at it and found a bit of wear in the engine and such.. he found same on a gas model..and they are expensive to fix.. do not want to be on the road and face a big bill.. so newer is worth the price and they are dropping way fast..many used asking more then the new models or very close.

[mdruhl7212]

Great info, I just sold my 22' Tahoe lite today and the TV will be a lease turn-in soon. After my deployment (I'm military) I'm getting a coach to take the wife & son around with. We'll be towing her '08 Jeep liberty, most likely on a dolly. A brake buddy and dolly are almost identical in cost. Anybody have an opinion on which is better? I'm definitely buying pre-owned. My wife is COMPLETELY HUNG on year model, versus a good value for dollar. A very difficult thing given the fact I've seen some nice mid-late 90's coaches that she turned her nose up at simply because of age. My question is mid-late 90's versus 2000-2005 models, around 30'. Do coaches deteriorate as fast as TT's do? Speaking for myself, my '01 Tahoe was as old as I wanted to go. Putty tape gets worn out, roof resealing, a/c shroud it brittled, paint fade, the list goes on. Do coaches on average weather any better, say like a normal vehicle would? If it were a late 90's tow vehicle in good shape I wouldn't hesitate on a good deal. Budget really doesn't bug me too badly. I'll pay the same payment for longer on a newer, or for a shorter period on an older. Standing by for opinions 🙂

Thanks,
Mike

P.S. I have to admit, it is fun to look at the 100K+ models and dream. I actually COULD own one, but the 20 years of payments is a real turn off 🙂

[JOEL_NEVA]

We ordered our new motorhome in '08 after more than a year of research. After you determine your needs #1 is customer support! The dealer can only do so much than #1 priority is the manufacturer. Go to the factory, call customer service and you will find out who is the best to meet your needs.

[vettepilot]

Re. Tolls, most toll roads and / or bridges charge "per" axle, so if you are not towing, many times we paid the same as a motorcycle in front of us. I think the first toll we ever paid was going over the Tappenzee Bridge in NY in Nov. 2006 enroute to RI.

Your'e so right about prices on Brand new dropping and used not so much. We have been looking at Winnebago Tour 40TD units. The prices are all over the board for brand new, but for the most part I found dealers are ready to reduce off the MSRP by about 30 - 35% before the real haggling begins. Also, I was going to sell our 2005 Expedition myself figuring I would get more than a dealer would offer, but the deaers I have talked with briefly have indicated most will give very good trade-in value on their new units so they can reduce their new stock floorplan. Also, there is a certain advantage to trade-in vs outright purchase. Just like a car, (at least in Al), you pay the sales tax on the differance between the trade-in and the new unit, not the total price of the new unit.

Seems to be a buyers market this summer, with fuel prices going higher, interest rates lower, and fully stocked dealers needing to move their units, I'm smiling.