Help with DP for Full Timing

[Mike3]

Hi all, I'm researching my first Class A. I've never driven or ridden in one so I have a lot to learn. I have been a fifth wheel guy for many years and I'm full timing in a 36' 5th wheel since October. I also have a truck camper I've been traveling in now for about 5 weeks on a trip from NC out west towing a motorcycle. We are loving the full time life style but thinking a larger class A with a toad may be a better choice. I read Johnny T's sticky for first time buyers today. Thank you Johnny! I do not have answers to all of the well thought out questions but I hope to before buying.

Here is what I think I know at this point. I'd like a used 40'-45' DP with enough power to travel the Rockies and beyond. I think I want a tag axle for the additional weight capacity and stability. I want a quality manufacturer that uses household quality materials and appliances. My budget is under 200K, hopefully well under.

So with that being said I have a few basic questions.

1. Which brands have the best reputation for quality and durability? I'm familiar with Tiffin, Newmar, Country Coach, Winnebago and the older Fleetwood names. I am not familiar with American Coach, Intergra and some others I have seen.

2. I understand Monaco and Fleetwood are out of business. Would you hesitate to buy one of them?

3. What are the benefits and the downside to a tag axle other than the additional expense?

4. What are the major differences between a Spartan and Freightliner chassis?

5. I realize that longer units 40-45' limit your camping choices but I have been told that once you exceed 36' it does make that much difference. Have you found that to be true.

6. Is there significant difference between driving and handling a 36' coach vs a 45' coach?

6. What are the plus and minuses of towing a toad with a dolly vs something like a Blue Ox with 4 wheels down?

7. Is a 2010 Honda accord a viable toad?

8. What features do you think would be critical for a full timer that may not be obvious to a newbie? I'm thinking more about things you don't see not features like washer/dryer and dishwasher.

9. is there another web site you recommend someone in my position might find helpful?

10. Are there any brands or models I should avoid?

Thanks for taking the time to respond to so many questions. I tried a search but found few helpful threads.

[Skid_Row_Joe]

Mike,

I've been giving this similar thought too, over the past several months/years.

Although my budget is quite a bit higher than yours, my basic desire for a high-quality, and durable rig is paramount.

My thought would be to plug your desire for a "45' rig with a tag axle," into a pre-owned Prevost conversion, or a Newell - that fit your stated dollars of "$200K." I would, however, only buy a unit with the Aqua Hot, hydronic style of heating at this stage and caliber of coach buying.

I may have missed it, but I read of no requirement for slides. If that is the case, then your $200K will buy considerably more in the high-end, commercial body and chassis Prevost and Newell markets.

My greatest fear is buying a fiberglass unit that I would not be pleased with, when I should have bought the top-of-the-line bus chassis unit. But then again, I'm getting up there in years, and have always thought that I'd like one of my last rigs to be a very slightly used, 45' Prevost conversion.

My 2nd greatest fear is buying a pre-owned Prevost conversion that was being dumped because it was a real lemon of a unit. I think I would stick to Prevost, versus Newell, just to maintain the highest possible standards in bus chassis buying and ownership experience.

My projected ownership period would be no less than 10-years, FWIW.

[Mr_Mark1]

nbargolf wrote:
IMHO again coaches 2007 and older a lot will have Cat engines. Not that at aren't great they are but according to a friend who was a diesel mechanic Cat will cost more for service and parts and won't get as good of mpg as a Cummins. Please don't destroy me just passing info from a pro.

Since you said what you said, I'll tell my experience.

When we bought our 2008 Monaco Dynasty in April of 2007, picking it up as we selected a factory delivery in Coburg, OR, our salesman told us that CAT engines were not going to be made for motorhomes.

I mentioned it on this site years ago and you would have thought I sprayed hot lava on the crowd. I certainly had no dog in the fight, just passing on what I had heard. The CAT dealer was across from the Monaco plant. Well, it was true, CAT got out of the OTR engine business.

Also, once we were parked next to a Monaco product RV and I got to talking to the owner. He had a CAT engine and was complaining about his fuel mileage. We were heavier with a tag axle and he was getting around 6 mpg, telling me that's the best he has gotten. I told him we were getting over 7.5 mpg with our Cummins. And I know this is SO unscientific but I've never ran across anyone saying that they were getting bad mileage with a Cummins.

And, I also know that there are many people here who have had excellent service from their CAT engines.

This is just my little snippet piece of experience which doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Safe travels,
MM.

[nbargolf]

IMHO again coaches 2007 and older a lot will have Cat engines. Not that at aren't great they are but according to a friend who was a diesel mechanic Cat will cost more for service and parts and won't get as good of mpg as a Cummins. Please don't destroy me just passing info from a pro.

[nbargolf]

1. Which brands have the best reputation for quality and durability? I'm familiar with Tiffin, Newmar, Country Coach, Winnebago and the older Fleetwood names. I am not familiar with American Coach, Intergra and some others I have seen.
All are good coaches

2. I understand Monaco and Fleetwood are out of business. Would you hesitate to buy one of them?
Both are in business

3. What are the benefits and the downside to a tag axle other than the additional expense?
2 extra tires to buy but tag handles better on the road.

4. What are the major differences between a Spartan and Freightliner chassis?
Not much

5. I realize that longer units 40-45' limit your camping choices but I have been told that once you exceed 36' it does make that much difference. Have you found that to be true.
We drove the Alaska highway all the way to Fairbanks and down the West coast in a 40 DP ISC 360 Cummins. Handled it great.

6. Is there significant difference between driving and handling a 36' coach vs a 45' coach?
Had a 34 gas now a 40 DP. In these rigs no comparison the DP is ton better handling.

6. What are the plus and minuses of towing a toad with a dolly vs something like a Blue Ox with 4 wheels down?
IMHO only I have used both and would never use a tow dolly again. Had one at 60 mph start whipping back and forth jerking the vehicle around plus it took 3 times as long to hook up and unhook.

7. Is a 2010 Honda accord a viable toad?
We tow a CRV an it is a great 4 down tow. Check out motorhome.com for a full list by year of 4 down towable.

8. What features do you think would be critical for a full timer that may not be obvious to a newbie? I'm thinking more about things you don't see not features like washer/dryer and dishwasher.
Love our wash/dryer use it all the time.

9. is there another web site you recommend someone in my position might find helpful?
http://www.rv-coach.com/rv/manufacturers/survey/rate_your_rv_results.html suppose to be user ratings.

10. Are there any brands or models I should avoid?
I won't buy some brands but that's me and I don't want to start a war.

We own a 2008 Fleetwood Providence it's been a great coach.
One recommendation do not buy a coach with Power Gear electric jacks. These are the worst piece of junk on the market. unfortunately Fleetwood put these on for 2-3 years and ours is one of the years. Only real problem we have had on our coach.
Personal choice would be a 42 Tiffin Allegro Bus up to a 2009-2010 in you price range.
NADA has used RV pricing. Most price out around 1/2 way between high and low.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to so many questions. I tried a search but found few helpful threads.

[CA_Traveler]

Snl Good point.

I assume that ARG kept the Monaco name for marketing considerations as some buy the name.

Similar to my HR Scepter which is a Monaco and not a HR rig other than the name.

I read that ARG destroyed all of the Monaco Roadmaster chassis molds.

[S-n-L]

CA Traveler,

That is in fact true. However, the original poster is looking at a used Dp. For him and all of us with Monaco brand motorhomes the company is providing outstanding phone support, parts support and service support. Many companies evolve and change the way they make their products.

ARG is the only motorhome company that has 2 service centers, one in Indiana & one in Oregon.

A Monaco (or sister brands) product would be an outstanding choice in an older Dp, especially if it's one of their upper end models.

[CA_Traveler]

Executive wrote:

Mike@Asheville wrote:
/snip/
2. I understand Monaco and Fleetwood are out of business.

Clicky, Please note the model YEAR

It's a Monaco in name only, freighliner chassis etc. It's a ARG rig as the Monaco Corporation is no longer.

[Executive45]

Mike@Asheville wrote:
/snip/
2. I understand Monaco and Fleetwood are out of business.

Clicky, Please note the model YEAR

[holstein13]

2gypsies wrote:


Public parks were always our first choice - national, state, national forests, COE, county and city. We also loved boondocking on a lovely stream or lake. Therefore, we could never have a washer or dishwasher.

That's very ironic. I find that my dishwasher uses less water than doing the dishes by hand. That's one of the reasons I like it. Makes the tanks last longer while boondocking. Of course paper plates and plastic utensils work even better.

[bluwtr49]

Personally, now that we've had Hydronic heating, there is no going back. Still don't have a dishwasher but we don't seem to miss it like we would not having the Hydronic heating. Not just for the virtually endless hot water but the coach heating both sitting and underway is unbeatable.

[Ivylog]

" we definitely don't think Aqua Hot, washer/dryer or dishwasher are critical for full-timing." While I agree with the last item, there's more to a Aqua Hot than lots of hot water. It gets heat from the engine so you can travel in cold weather with plenty of free heat. When you need heat and do not have electric it uses from the MH's fuel tank so you can go weeks without having to go get fuel.
In 14 years we've used a laundromat maybe two times and that was to do rugs. Yes, you have to do more small loads but the DW does not like going to laundromats so when our Splendide 2100 stops working, if it does not get replaced, then I may be the one replaced.:W
We've been known to do a load of laundry while boondocking, but it helps to have 120 gallon of water. Different strokes for different folks... it's a great country.

[2gypsies1]

Just speaking for ourselves, we definitely don't think Aqua Hot, washer/dryer or dishwasher are critical for full-timing.

We did without them for 16 years with our 40' Newmar motorhome - Spartan/Cummins.

Dishes for two are minimal. Why do you need continuous hot water except if you have a washer then you'll be doing constant laundry because of their size. We went to a laundramat every two weeks and finished in 1-1/2 hours. It's no big deal.

Public parks were always our first choice - national, state, national forests, COE, county and city. We also loved boondocking on a lovely stream or lake. Therefore, we could never have a washer or dishwasher.

Everyone is different and it just depends on YOUR WAY of RVing. Full-timers don't need full hookups.

[S-n-L]

Executive wrote:
"For your budget, I would look hard at any of the Monaco/Holiday Rambler lines. IMO, look at the luxury coaches only...i.e. Dynasty, Executive, Signature. These three have the S steel chassis. Anything lower on the food chain have a semi-monocoque chassis and consist of an aluminum alloy."

Great post Dennis however I think you ment to say that the lower coaches on the food chain do not have the semi-monocoque chassis. What you want is the S-chassis that is a semi-monoocoque, 10 air bag chassis.

The sister ships that Dennis mentioned in the Holiday Rambler and Beaver line are:
Navigator (HR) = Executive (Monaco) = Patriot thunder (Beaver)
Imperial (HR)= Dynasty (Monaco)
No Signature in the HR line. Signature (Monaco) = Marque (Beaver)

Any of these will give you the same S-chassis with the semi-monoque construction and 10 air bags.

Stuart

[CA_Traveler]

Mike@Asheville wrote:
2. I understand Monaco and Fleetwood are out of business. Would you hesitate to buy one of them? I'm on my second Monaco.

3. What are the benefits and the downside to a tag axle other than the additional expense? Another axle and tires, more stable ride. Required for weight in larger rigs

5. I realize that longer units 40-45' limit your camping choices but I have been told that once you exceed 36' it does make that much difference. Have you found that to be true. Yes

6. Is there significant difference between driving and handling a 36' coach vs a 45' coach? Not a lot except for parking

6. What are the plus and minuses of towing a toad with a dolly vs something like a Blue Ox with 4 wheels down? Dolly will be cheaper, 4 down is easier hookup.

7. Is a 2010 Honda accord a viable toad? ? Model dependent