This sums it up for the status of the RV industry now

[afrescopXx]

This is from today's "Let's Go RVing" published daily by Greg Gerber, a well known and respected industry journalist.

Follow this link: http://rvdailyreport.com/opinion/rv-death-spiral-manufacturers-in-race-to-the-bottom/

[tropical36]

SequoiaBound wrote:
For someone brand new to this and just starting research are there any resources or guides for how to spot issues and/or this "quality" that folks mention often?

In home buying and in RV shopping it is easy to look at the shiny objects and overlook the guts. Since I started from scratch about three weeks ago I've gone from not knowing what Class A/B/C meant to researching individual manufacturers and models and common problems. I've watched hours of youtube videos to learn basics and model reviews.

That being said, beyond looking for things like water damage, obvious wear and tear, generator hours, tire year, what other issues should I be looking for? Should I just rely on an RV mechanic once I believe I've found the right RV? Using the VIN can I obtain maintenance records from the manufacturer or any other resource?

Also am I allowed to flatly ask on these forums what is a quality manufacturer vs a cheapo? I have a pretty good feel based upon pricing and the used market but just thought I'd throw it out there.

With older Class A gas units, I'm partial to National brands and don't think there was one finer. I still have my Tropi-Cal for sale, which was the top of the line for that year and even though, you'll probably see more Dolphin's out there than anything else and with the LX being comparable. Tropi-Cal went DP with their quality in 03.
With the newer ones, I'm thinking along the lines of Newmar and their Canyon Star seems to be very popular, with a large 1 1/2 bath model as well. Larger the better for us, as it makes no difference on the road and this fact was reinforced with my drive home in our newer 41ft DP. Especially with the sharper wheel cut, so actually easier to drive all around.
Now, once you get into DP's it becomes very very broad and always boils down to what you want to pay. We like quality, so will drop back in the years for getting what we want and always shun away from the new ones that might still fit our budget.
For the extreme high end and discounting these brands from consideration, there's still a lot to choose from. By extreme, I'm talking, Prevost, Newell, Foretravel, Bluebird for some examples.
Sure we could have bought a much older one of these as well, but now your must haves begin to diminish in the way of slides perhaps and with finding a 1 1/2 bath model.
All in all, I think we have a quality product with what we bought and with not having to give up on much of anything.

You can get some info from the Vin, depending on the companies involed in it's production and whether or not they're still in business. Also there's some info with companies like carfax that you can get for less than 2 bucks.

For an inspection, choose an independent professional for doing a PDI and have it as a contingency. Also one that doesn't know the dealer if there is one and you will probably find your best deals with consignment sales, when a dealer is involved.
We bought this way, but made the mistake of letting the dealer do the PDI and much like getting a fox to guard the chicken house, if you get my drift.

To sum it up, get it for the right price, so you'll have some room for the issues that always come up after the buy. With buying new, you're already under water when leaving the dealer's lot, so....

Hope this long dissertation helps to answer your questions some, without stepping on some toes....lol

[2gypsies1]

SequoiaBound: Just keep in mind that for all the complaints you read on these forums there are thousands and thousands who are satisfied with perhaps the same manufacturers. Not everyone has problems with their RV.

People complain about RVs, campgrounds, dogs, outside lights, campfires, etc.

Yes, when you find one suitable for you, have it checked out thoroughly by a qualified person.

Best of luck. Good RVs really are out there!

[SequoiaBound]

For someone brand new to this and just starting research are there any resources or guides for how to spot issues and/or this "quality" that folks mention often?

In home buying and in RV shopping it is easy to look at the shiny objects and overlook the guts. Since I started from scratch about three weeks ago I've gone from not knowing what Class A/B/C meant to researching individual manufacturers and models and common problems. I've watched hours of youtube videos to learn basics and model reviews.

That being said, beyond looking for things like water damage, obvious wear and tear, generator hours, tire year, what other issues should I be looking for? Should I just rely on an RV mechanic once I believe I've found the right RV? Using the VIN can I obtain maintenance records from the manufacturer or any other resource?

Also am I allowed to flatly ask on these forums what is a quality manufacturer vs a cheapo? I have a pretty good feel based upon pricing and the used market but just thought I'd throw it out there.

[tropical36]

Hey, as long as it has a huge TV and a fireplace, who cars about the rest of it, right?
Dead wrong, if I'm looking to buy and we just did, so hopefully we have the unit that matches it's reputation. Just had to drop back in years to fit our budget is all and hate new things that haven't been tried and proven anyway.
I did manage to fit in a 32 inch TV and can go larger with a few mods if need be....lol
As for the rest of this beast, the learning process will extend into my old, old age and hopefully won't drain our bank account, completely.

[Kayteg1]

msmith1199 wrote:
What he is describing here is exactly what happened to the American auto industry back in the 70's. They started cutting costs and cutting quality and turning out junk. So American's quit buying and started buying Japanese cars instead. How long until Japan gets into the RV industry?

I think this article, although having some incorrect info, is spot on. Have you walked into some of the newer light weight trailers? I find myself walking carefully because it feels like you're going to fall through the floor. You can just walk around and look at the cheapness of everything. But then again, I'm a consumer who is willing to pay more for quality. The reason the RV makers are doing this is because so many consumers look at price over quality. At least until after they buy the cheapest and then can't figure out why it's falling apart.

Even competition on RV market is small, the sample of Japanese cars already exist on RV market.
Look how much used Sprinter-based motorhome are selling for.
Not too many can afford $ 1/2 MIl or higher DP, but smart buyers don't want the $100,000 junk.

[Effy]

jupiter217 wrote:
wow, wow, wow. thank you so much for this post. i recently retired and was doing research in prep to going full time RVing. after reading that article and listening to the referenced audio file from the lemon law lawyer i have deep 6'ed the whole idea. i almost walked into a nightmare. thank you again for saving me from such a headache.

You have to really want to RV to accept the risks and loss of money to go through with it anyway. It's not for everyone and frankly it's a really poor choice financially. But those that love Rving, don't care. It's about the joy of all the things that RVing brings. It's fun or millions of people wouldn't be doing it. But no one said it was a smart move from an objective standpoint. If you don't have the bug, you likely just saved yourself a ton of money, time and aggravation. If you had the RV bug, you'd likely shrug this off like the rest of us and deal with the issues as they come.

[Effy]

I could only get through half the article. Seemed to ramble on and on about the same thing over and over. Bottom line is this: Manufacturers make RV's as light as possible, are not held accountable to ANY standard - either safety or quality, and as long as people keep buying them, they'll keep making them that way. Profit is on the front end of an RV sale. I heard long ago that manufacturers will pad an allowance in the sale of a unit for repairs post sale. So your new coach already has a "fix" allowance built into the price. You have 2 choices, pay a lot of money for less problems, or don't RV. frankly I am amazed sometimes that people who buy one of the most heavily depreciated assets known to man, knowingly buying something with majorly recreational purpose, armed with the knowledge that they are poorly built, accept the fact they lose thousands of dollars driving off the lot, then complain when they have issues. Frankly, buying an RV is a poor choice from a financial perspective. We have all this knowledge about it being a poor product that you lose money on, roll the dice and buy anyway, and then complain. Funny.

[tinkerer]

This is a common problem with a lot of industries in the US, I call it the WalMart mentality where the everybody is brow beat to lower production cost, and never mind how it's done. There are to many bean counters making decisions that don't have a clue about anything besides figures. But in my opinion is that if a person is brain dead mechanically maybe an Rv is not a good option for those kind. Just saying.

[2gypsies1]

jupiter217 wrote:
wow, wow, wow. thank you so much for this post. i recently retired and was doing research in prep to going full time RVing. after reading that article and listening to the referenced audio file from the lemon law lawyer i have deep 6'ed the whole idea. i almost walked into a nightmare. thank you again for saving me from such a headache.

That's a shame you cancelled your plans just because of this article. Many, many RVers have no issues or very minimal with their RVs when buying new. All you hear from are the complainers, not the satisfied ones which are millions.

You can purchase a late model used and have it checked out thoroughly by someone competent before buying. This is your best bet. By doing this you can get a more higher quality RV that you wouldn't be able to afford if buying new. New doesn't eliminate problems. Used in excellent condition means there have been no problems or they were repaired. There's absolutely nothing wrong in buying quality used.

RVing is not going away. It's been here for 100 years in good and bad financial times. I hope you change your mind as full-timing is an awesome lifestyle! We did it - trouble-free - for 16 years in two different 'quality' RVs.

[tropical36]

J&R wrote:

RLS7201 wrote:
While some valid points are made, the author does show some lack of knowledge when he blames the RV manufactures for the in tank fuel pumps. He needs to learn the difference between coach and chassis.

Richard

This is an excellent point. Most dealers do not warranty chassis, engine, trans, etc. So ask them for info as to who to go to. Ford, Cat, cummins, freightliner, etc. They should have experience with these dealers. Get names, contacts, etc. Do some homework.

Where might the fuel pump be located on mine and as you know, is the same as yours?

[J_R2]

RLS7201 wrote:
While some valid points are made, the author does show some lack of knowledge when he blames the RV manufactures for the in tank fuel pumps. He needs to learn the difference between coach and chassis.

Richard

This is an excellent point. Most dealers do not warranty chassis, engine, trans, etc. So ask them for info as to who to go to. Ford, Cat, cummins, freightliner, etc. They should have experience with these dealers. Get names, contacts, etc. Do some homework.

[msmith1199]

What he is describing here is exactly what happened to the American auto industry back in the 70's. They started cutting costs and cutting quality and turning out junk. So American's quit buying and started buying Japanese cars instead. How long until Japan gets into the RV industry?

I think this article, although having some incorrect info, is spot on. Have you walked into some of the newer light weight trailers? I find myself walking carefully because it feels like you're going to fall through the floor. You can just walk around and look at the cheapness of everything. But then again, I'm a consumer who is willing to pay more for quality. The reason the RV makers are doing this is because so many consumers look at price over quality. At least until after they buy the cheapest and then can't figure out why it's falling apart.

[Cloud_Dancer]

Regarding the subject matter, I don't think the industry is going to change. However, I believe they will will add more and more electronic modules (and not tell us where they are and what they control).

[jupiter217]

wow, wow, wow. thank you so much for this post. i recently retired and was doing research in prep to going full time RVing. after reading that article and listening to the referenced audio file from the lemon law lawyer i have deep 6'ed the whole idea. i almost walked into a nightmare. thank you again for saving me from such a headache.