Used PW or LT for rough-road 4-season camping?

[greydawg]

Hello all:

I’m looking for a used Class B. The primary use will be for camping – mostly on BLM and National Forest lands, but occasionally in a National Park, State Park or Walmart Park. It will be used as a “tent with metal sides” for the most part – certainly not a luxury travel vehicle.

I don’t particularly want a shower/toilet/blackwater tank (portapotty or cassette toilet are preferable) but it looks like everyone but Sportsmobile takes up valuable B room with a dedicated bathroom. I don’t want (nor can I afford) a Sportsmobile.

I will only consider a Ford or a Chevy gas chassis. No Sprinters and no diesels. No old Dodge gas vans.

I had a 2WD E350 Ford van for several years on which I put 160K miles, and the factory ground clearance was perfect for the sorts of roads I often end up on.

Q1. My inclination is to look for a 2006-2014 PleasureWay or Leisure Travel, as I understand that the RoadTrek drops the floor, significantly decreasing ground clearance. Is this correct?

Q2. Is there any difference in the insulation or 4-season capability between the PW and the LT? Or will I have to winterize pipes in both if camping in sub-freezing temperatures?

Q3. It looks like the skirting on both the PW and the LT lower the effective ground clearance, and my reading leads me to believe the skirting cannot be removed. Is this correct?

I apologize for these questions; if there were any used PW or LT within a couple of hundred miles of me, I’d go make measurements. As it is, it looks like I will need to travel several hundred miles to make a purchase. And it seems these units are scarcer than hen’s teeth!


BTW, my budget is <$50,000 all in, and preferably <$40,000.

Thanks for the help,
GreyDawg


currently camping in the back of a Toyota 4Runner ... a tad snug!

[cbigham]

Hmmm,
I take mine many a remote place. Benefits of the plumbing, tanks and generator being higher up, no clearance issues and nothing freezes. Downside, less storage. It's on an older GM chassis. For one, two people works fine, I've camped in it 11 days, been warm in winter, shower stove, heat. You could also get a van and put a locker rear end in for much less cash than a 4x4 conversion and get in and out of many places if patient. Parts are common, diagnosis is obd2 scanner, very common. It's been really revealing to me, enjoy the freedom of it much better than my motorhome, much more than I anticipated. I store an inflatable kayak in it and am a dirt biker/dual sport rider.

[rockymtnb]

Here's a link for that VanWorks Promaster conversion:

VanWorks Promaster

I have a coworker that has the VanWorks Sprinter conversion. All tanks and systems are internal - nothing hanging down below the unit. Nice simple and rugged.

He did get the solar and Espar heating options for off-grid use.

[rockymtnb]

You might want to peruse the used Sportsmobiles listed on their website. They generally have internal tanks and relatively good ground clearance.

Another option might be a newer Promaster or Ford Transit van with a simple conversion by VanWorks in Colorado, which includes simple internal systems. VanWorks can provide a basic conversion for $14-18k and you could probably find a closeout Promaster or Transit on dealer lots for the low 30s.

Although the Transit and Promaster vans don't have as much ground clearance as the old E250 they're probably better than a PW or LTV with low hanging tanks and running boards.

[greydawg]

Thanks, all!

A Tiger would be perfect, and I've been drooling over them for years, but the used ones are rare and spendy.

More thinking to do.

Thanks again.

[Shearwater]

Used Class B's tend to hold value better than most RV's which makes them an expensive option.

Another option is to buy a used van of your choice and get a custom outfitter like Sportsmobile install the systems that you don't feel like handling.

[jrobe]

A Tiger Bengal RV would probably be perfect for you but they don't show up used very often. I rented one last year in Colorado just to try it. It worked well in the mountains on some pretty beat up National Forest Service Roads although it drove like the heavy duty pick-up that it was. The interior was built to withstand a beating. I rented it from the guys at the link below.

http://www.tigervehicles.com/tiger-models/cx/
http://adventuretravelsportrentals.com/tiger-bengal-rig/

[Davydd]

None of the Bs you mentioned so far in Pleasure-way or Leisure Travel Vans is going to qualify as a decent four season van. None of them are very well insulated and that period most all use was designed for above freezing temperature expectations. Also your worry about ground clearance is overstated or over worried. Class Bs are not Jeeps. You will rarely drive them anywhere where it might be a concern. Class Bs are just not built for that kind of abuse with everything you normally carry inside.

In the 2006 - 2014 period I think only Sportsmobile was designing and building "active" Class Bs on 4x4 platforms in your price range, and maybe of more concern is height and Sportsmobile like pop top vans gave you more capability driving down seldom used lanes with overhanging tree branches that most all pickup trucks had long knocked away.

[chloe_s_ranch]

Our conversion cost about $12K at Advanced Four Wheel Drive in SLC. It also has the advantage that I t gives you extra ground clearance which helps on rougher Forest Service roads. Our Class C is a 2005 Fleetwood Tioga 23e which seems pretty well built. Winnebago would be another brand that has pretty good build quality in your price range. I would look for a MH no longer than 24 ft for your use, also ideally on the Ford E 450 Chassis which is more robust than the E 350 chassis. 2005 and up have the 5 speed transmission which is a plus for several reasons. I can tell you that from my experience finding a short Class C in good condition is a little difficult, especially on the E 450 chassis.

[greydawg]

Thanks all for the additional replies.

Since I'm a solo female, I don't really like the camper/truck combination, as more than once I've had occasion to want to decamp quickly without exiting the vehicle ... Hence the van.

However, the notion of a small used class C is a thought -- but wouldn't it be subject to the same issue raised above of bumpy roads pulling cabinets off the walls? Just a thought.

@chloe's Ranch -- what brand/length of class C did you get, so that you felt it was of sufficient quality for the 4x4 investment? I've seen an aftermarket conversion on a BornFree, which has a very high build quality (and price). And in NM I saw a PleasureWay B that had an Advanced 4x4 conversion, which is what got me thinking along the PW/LT lines. Hmmm. IIRC a Ford 4x4 conversion costs about $10-$12K.

[jakegw2]

You might want to consider looking for a used PW Traverse. No bath inside (but a porta potty is in there), has a stove, fridge, sink, and furnace. Very stealthy and low profile but can be expanded to provide standing room when you need it. Very little that hangs down (just the graywater discharge pipe). All water tanks are inside so you can use it in the winter as long as the furnace is kept on when the van is turned off.

[chloe_s_ranch]

I agree with several others that a full size 4x4 truck with a pop up camper would do what you want really well and would fit in your budget if you bought used. We had that combo for two years and loved it, although for the two of us and two dogs it was a little tight space wise. We ended up trading for a small used class C on the Ford E 450 chassis and getting it converted to four wheel drive. That option would also fit your budget.

[greydawg]

Thanks for the replies.

I had not thought about the weight factor and "cabinets coming off the walls." Good point.

I built a bare bones camping van on an E350 -- but didn't have the skills for either a propane system or 12V electrical work. And -- as I fully embrace middle age -- I would like to have both. On the Sportsmobile forum there are scads of fabulous DIY rigs -- made by people with much better skills than mine.

Yes, I know the FitRV reviews -- and yes, it is not only a matter of ground clearance but of what is dangling low, too.

Thanks all!

[Naio]

Have you considered building your own, if you don't want a truck camper?

There are a lot of used conversion vans on the market, if you want a factory bench seat, with a motor that converts it to bed, interior trim stuff, etc. Or just start with a stock van.

[mkguitar]

I think you'd do better to build or as abve get a pop up truck camper, lightweight and good clearance and you can size the vehicle to your needs.

a B will be way heavy...like 9000 pounds and a rough road will literally knock the cabinets off the walls- in time.

a major part of the B's cost is the cabinetry and the plumbing lay out and systems which you do not want.

My neighbor did a 4x4 conversion on a 99 PW Excel- it was a major operation and he is unsure of the ride on teh highway ( high center of gravity) nor is it really holding up in Baja



Mike