LAN security

[dryfly]

I've often wondered, with all the remote access to home networks, do folks really understand the concerns. We have lots of homeowners looking at their IP cameras on their cell phones and laptops, thermostats being controlled, and many automated home functions being controlled remotely.

I would bet this is being accomplished by initiating port forwarding on routers, or using P2P networks. The point is if you can remotely access your network, anyone can.

Now I realize some have initiated VPN tunneling and/or vlans which go a long way towards a secure network, but just how many have taken precautions like this to prevent serious intrusions?

[austinjenna]

I think that is someone in a CG is trying to hack my Smart tv through the campgrounds half azzed working wifi then they are not much of a hacker.

[jodeb720]

there are two types of access.
Third party and direct access.

third party your cameras and devices all connect (encrypted) to a "website" which you then connect to encrypted. Both you and the cameras have a connection to the third party site (that's how Ring works)

Then there's the direct connection which requires you poke a hole in your home router allowing direct access inside your home network. Much more dangerous.

The third party security has been beefed up with two factor authentication for you and your devices. makes it much harder to spoof.

[CFerguson]

sempka wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

BillyBob Jim wrote:
They have the ability to talk back but you have the ability to shut it all down in the settings. They do not make it easy, every brand has different hoops and hurdles, but you're ultimately in control.

Yeah, maybe. I sometimes have my doubts about how much ultimate control you have over your devices.

Simply don't connect it to the internet and it can't report back or be hacked.

True (for now). But also consider those using smart TV's at home (non RVs) thru a cable box. Those are VERY interactive.

[dryfly]

sempka wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

BillyBob Jim wrote:
They have the ability to talk back but you have the ability to shut it all down in the settings. They do not make it easy, every brand has different hoops and hurdles, but you're ultimately in control.

Yeah, maybe. I sometimes have my doubts about how much ultimate control you have over your devices.

Simply don't connect it to the internet and it can't report back or be hacked.

Bingo !!! this is the ultimate protection. However, there are secure ways to remotely access devices if one is willing to take the time and effort to implement good practices in the LAN.

The purpose of my OP was to point out that there are so many devices in use now that folks are interfacing with the internet not knowing the risk that is involved.

I'm still not convinced there are that many nefarious people out there that are going to spend the time to discover a camera on a laptop to allow them to watch anyone. Most serious hacking events come from computers scanning 24/7 for open ports on LAN's or penetrating P2P servers. Or from devices that are built by manufacturers that include "phone home" commands in their firmware.

[sempka]

fj12ryder wrote:

BillyBob Jim wrote:
They have the ability to talk back but you have the ability to shut it all down in the settings. They do not make it easy, every brand has different hoops and hurdles, but you're ultimately in control.

Yeah, maybe. I sometimes have my doubts about how much ultimate control you have over your devices.

Simply don't connect it to the internet and it can't report back or be hacked.

[fj12ryder]

BillyBob Jim wrote:
They have the ability to talk back but you have the ability to shut it all down in the settings. They do not make it easy, every brand has different hoops and hurdles, but you're ultimately in control.

Yeah, maybe. I sometimes have my doubts about how much ultimate control you have over your devices.

[CFerguson]

BillyBob Jim wrote:

CFerguson wrote:

austinjenna wrote:
Hmm, none of my smart tv's have a camera built in

Same here, but I'm not even sure if you can find one at retail now that doesn't have the ability to talk back to 'corporate'.

And yes, the first thing I do on a new laptop/whatever is put a piece or 2 of black electrical tape over the camera lens. If I had one in a tv, I think I would probably gouge it out. I see Zero use for that other than to spy on me.
Eric Blair had the timeline wrong, but boy was he right.

They have the ability to talk back but you have the ability to shut it all down in the settings. They do not make it easy, every brand has different hoops and hurdles, but you're ultimately in control.

Or so they tell you.
And assuming hackers cant crack into it.....

[BillyBob_Jim]

CFerguson wrote:

austinjenna wrote:
Hmm, none of my smart tv's have a camera built in

Same here, but I'm not even sure if you can find one at retail now that doesn't have the ability to talk back to 'corporate'.

And yes, the first thing I do on a new laptop/whatever is put a piece or 2 of black electrical tape over the camera lens. If I had one in a tv, I think I would probably gouge it out. I see Zero use for that other than to spy on me.
Eric Blair had the timeline wrong, but boy was he right.

They have the ability to talk back but you have the ability to shut it all down in the settings. They do not make it easy, every brand has different hoops and hurdles, but you're ultimately in control.

[CFerguson]

austinjenna wrote:
Hmm, none of my smart tv's have a camera built in

Same here, but I'm not even sure if you can find one at retail now that doesn't have the ability to talk back to 'corporate'.

And yes, the first thing I do on a new laptop/whatever is put a piece or 2 of black electrical tape over the camera lens. If I had one in a tv, I think I would probably gouge it out. I see Zero use for that other than to spy on me.
Eric Blair had the timeline wrong, but boy was he right.

[austinjenna]

Hmm, none of my smart tv's have a camera built in

[Eric_Lisa]

Great topic, let me share some thoughts...

Living off the land is where an attack is conducted using in-place technology to eventually reach a target. So my remote control LED lights, a little cheap tiny device, isn't worth attacking itself. Not a big threat if a bad actor can turn some lights on/off. However, they could leapfrog from that device to something else I care about on my network, like my PC with my financial data on it. The solution is to put the LED lights on their own 'guest network' and isolated from my valued devices.

Complex attackers. A hacker who is able to determine the schedule on your thermostat - and therefore know when you are home - will not physically perform an attack on your property. They will provide that information to some one who is looking for houses to break in to. They may be part of a group, or it could be information simply sold on the underground market.

It may not be your network that is compromised. Let's say an attacker can penetrate Honeywell, the thermostat maker's network. Many of these devices do not have the schedule functionality operating locally, it is operated by central servers. Sure, it all appears that your cell phone is controlling your thermostat, but in reality your cell phone is talking to a central server and it talks to your thermostat. Now with one successful attack against Honeywell, your 'at-home schedule' has been compromised due to no fault of your own.

Targeted attacks. This is probably more work than a run-of-the-mill thief will do, but not if you are being targeted. Are you known to have valuables at home? Collector cars is a great example where the DMV (another computer) knows you are the owner, and in order to enjoy the collector car you have to drive it in public. Definitely a bigger target than someone who owns valuable art, but is not widely known to have such assets.

Remote access devices like Chamberlain's MyQ garage door openers are another big one. Central computer knows when the garage door opens and you leave for work. A successful compromise of MyQ, and now the bad actors can drive up to your garage, open the door, drive in, close the door, and ransack the house without fear of being noticed by the neighbors.

Don't think you will know about it in time to respond. Earlier this week Quest Diagnostics admitted 11.9 million patient records had been accessed between 8/1/18 and 3/30/19. The attack is over and done before the public was notified.

And don't get me started on the spying that SmartTVs and such do. It is just freaky having a camera watching me while I watch TV. DW gets a little amorous on the couch after a chick-flick, and your TV could be sharing the video. No doubt Amazon's Alexa will record the soundtrack for synchronization with the video.


Sorry for the long winded post. This is a subject I have a lot of concerns about. I work in tech, specifically the security side of tech. I do have a lot of these tech toys around, but none that can monitor me or that control any of my home security. And what little I do allow, I keep them in network isolation from any things I do care about.

-Eric

[CFerguson]

dryfly wrote:

CFerguson wrote:
Its not very prevalent today (or so I think), but in the future it will be. If you put it on the net, its hackable. Spend some time on the Reddit pirate/hacking sites and youll see the kinds of things some folks do just for kicks.

I respectfully disagree. Do a little reading on reputable security tech sites and business sites such as WSJ. It's here today. We are not talking about kids hacking for fun, we are talking intrusions by manufacturers of IP cameras, and other IoT devices.

And, I definitely understand why this is not of interest to everyone.

You could very well be correct. I sure wont argue with you.

Lots of folks used to call me paranoid until they noticed over the years that was I what I was telling them was becoming commonplace. Hackers gonna hack. And if theres a way to steal from someone or even just cause them trouble, there's lowlifes that will do it.

[Kayteg1]

Don't know how thieves can hack into my WI-FI thermostats when I have very hard time to set them each time power goes off and common reviews say it takes rocket engineer :h
But that reminds me precaution with "keyless go" on my car.
Suppose thieves have range extenders and they can extend the sensor signal from master bedroom, via the extender at the front door and into car park on the driveway.
That allows to open the door and start the engine.
Safety precaution will not shut down the engine, even with no key present till the car stops, so thieve can make it across the city into garage and then worry how to replace remote controls.

[MrWizard]

i will say only this

when MFG include spy C@#$ in their internet capable devices
this is not "hacking" , this is deliberate "Criminal" intrusion

and should be held liable and accountable in a court of law