Propane Fuel Cell

[CoeyCoey]

This looks very interesting.

https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/the-watt-fuel-cell-coming-to-an-rv-near-you/

.34 lbs/hour for 500 watts. .34 pounds of propane has around 2,150wh of energy, so this is around 23% efficient with is close to that of a generator. If this was coupled with a large battery bank, you would have near silent power all the time. With 500 watts of solar added on this, on a sunny day you would get over 1,200 amp/hours from a 12v battery bank. That should be enough to run an AC straight for 10 hours.

I haven't found a confirmation on price, but I have read on some threads people claim it is going to be around $5,000. A used Nissan leaf battery pack of 24 kWh is around $5,000. An in inverter, BMS, 500 watts of solar, and you are probably around $13,000. You could probably get $2,500 for a used propane generator. So, maybe just over $10K all in. Would it be worth it to you?

If we ever develop a decent hydrogen network, then hydrogen would be a far better fuel. At the present $14/kg, it would cost around twice that of propane per kWh, but future technologies are expected to get it around $2/kg.

[CoeyCoey]

Bill.Satellite wrote:

CoeyCoey wrote:
Could you please read my posts and try to understand it before responding. I said that it was more than twice as efficient than the generator at half load. You will rarely ever run a generator at full load. Anything less than full load decreases the efficiency.

How about letting people speak for themselves. If you don't think this is worth it for you, then just say that. Don't come on to threads and poopoo every idea because of your preconceived ideas on the topic. You immediately said it was less efficient, which shows you did absolutely ZERO research. People would like to discuss new technologies without having someone, a moderator no less, bashing the idea from a position of ignorance.

I have to assume that a "Welcome to the Forum" is in order CoeyCoey. Understand that this is an open forum and others are allowed to have differing views, opinions and perspectives. This does not make them right or wrong, only differing. You are going to need to put your big boy panties on and accept that others see things differently. By they way, seeing things differently is OK, even if they are wrong. There is no need and no reason to flame any poster, be they moderator or not, about their post. If you think a poster missed something you are welcome to try to clarify without insulting them. I don't believe the system you find interesting is a great leap forward but it certainly is a different take on a necessary solution. Fuel cells have been around for a long time and many are powered by Hydrogen, and even better power to fuel ratio (or I could be completely wrong, but don't care).
If you are interested in having an open discussion with varying points of view, you have come to the right place. If not, I doubt you are going to find a path to your intended goal here.

Hey Bill,

Adults seek knowledge and present educated opinions, not opinions based purely on ignorance. Would you like some more advice on how to be an adult? Because from this post, I see you need it.

[CoeyCoey]

MrWizard wrote:
Coey

your Pro the idea

and i'm presenting a different view point

so in 'your' estimation i am poo-pooing everything

using that view point in reverse, you would be regarded as a fanatic of idea

i don't think either is version is true

i'm not opposed to fuel cells
i'm just not as excited about 'this' and you are

the fuel cell puts out 500watts max, and thats MAX efficiency
thats approx 40amps for full power, what happens if the batteries are full and your a only using 10 amps or less, whats the efficiency then

how easy to start or stop, cold weather operation etc..

Instead of presenting an opinion as if it is a fact, try educating yourself on the topic so you can actually present facts. You didn't present a different view, you stated utterly false information. And if the battery is full, the fuel cell turns off! If you researched it at all, you wouldn't keep making ignorant comments.

[Bill_Satellite]

CoeyCoey wrote:
Could you please read my posts and try to understand it before responding. I said that it was more than twice as efficient than the generator at half load. You will rarely ever run a generator at full load. Anything less than full load decreases the efficiency.

How about letting people speak for themselves. If you don't think this is worth it for you, then just say that. Don't come on to threads and poopoo every idea because of your preconceived ideas on the topic. You immediately said it was less efficient, which shows you did absolutely ZERO research. People would like to discuss new technologies without having someone, a moderator no less, bashing the idea from a position of ignorance.

I have to assume that a "Welcome to the Forum" is in order CoeyCoey. Understand that this is an open forum and others are allowed to have differing views, opinions and perspectives. This does not make them right or wrong, only differing. You are going to need to put your big boy panties on and accept that others see things differently. By they way, seeing things differently is OK, even if they are wrong. There is no need and no reason to flame any poster, be they moderator or not, about their post. If you think a poster missed something you are welcome to try to clarify without insulting them. I don't believe the system you find interesting is a great leap forward but it certainly is a different take on a necessary solution. Fuel cells have been around for a long time and many are powered by Hydrogen, and even better power to fuel ratio (or I could be completely wrong, but don't care).
If you are interested in having an open discussion with varying points of view, you have come to the right place. If not, I doubt you are going to find a path to your intended goal here.

[MDKMDK]

GordonThree wrote:
I'm holding out for a perpetual motion battery based on vacuum energy and the quantum Casimir effect.

Me too. If we live that long......:W

[GordonThree]

I'm holding out for a perpetual motion battery based on vacuum energy and the quantum Casimir effect.

[MDKMDK]

CoeyCoey wrote:
This looks very interesting.

https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/the-watt-fuel-cell-coming-to-an-rv-near-you/

So, maybe just over $10K all in. Would it be worth it to you?

Nope.

[MrWizard]

Coey

your Pro the idea

and i'm presenting a different view point

so in 'your' estimation i am poo-pooing everything

using that view point in reverse, you would be regarded as a fanatic of idea

i don't think either is version is true

i'm not opposed to fuel cells
i'm just not as excited about 'this' and you are

the fuel cell puts out 500watts max, and thats MAX efficiency
thats approx 40amps for full power, what happens if the batteries are full and your a only using 10 amps or less, whats the efficiency then

how easy to start or stop, cold weather operation etc..

[time2roll]

Yes I would have this fuel cell for $5,000 vs buying an Onan for $3,000.

[CoeyCoey]

Could you please read my posts and try to understand it before responding. I said that it was more than twice as efficient than the generator at half load. You will rarely ever run a generator at full load. Anything less than full load decreases the efficiency.

How about letting people speak for themselves. If you don't think this is worth it for you, then just say that. Don't come on to threads and poopoo every idea because of your preconceived ideas on the topic. You immediately said it was less efficient, which shows you did absolutely ZERO research. People would like to discuss new technologies without having someone, a moderator no less, bashing the idea from a position of ignorance.

[MrWizard]

Math

500w for 123 hours. 61.5 kwhr
Verus
2500w for 17 hours. 42.5 KwHr

An improvement yes, not double

Besides most RV now have gasoline or diesel generator
Because propane is harder to get and you carry less fuel

I don't think too many people want to give up the gas generator and start using their limited l.p. For electric power even with improved efficiency

Interesting topic

[CoeyCoey]

Actually, I just did the math. According to Onan, a 2500W LP generator uses .4 gal/hour at half load, and .6gal/hour at full load. That gives it an efficiency of 11% at half load and 15% at full load. So, this fuel cell is going to be over twice as efficient than the generator at half load. The fuel cell will run over 123 hours on a 10 gallon tank. A propane generator would run a max of 25 hours at half load, or 17 hours at full load.

[MrWizard]

I disagree on the efficiency factor matching and lp generator
And cost almost always turns out greater than these news announcement blurbs adv

When the cost is competitive with a generator of comparable power
The market will be more receptive

[CoeyCoey]

As I stated in my post, this propane fuel cell has efficiency on par with a propane generator. Also, it makes almost no noise, and is far more environmentally friendly. The EFOY is Methanol. This is propane. Most RVs already have a propane tank. And if they have a propane generator, then it already has a line in place. Remove the propane generator and install this with some batteries in its place.

[MrWizard]

This kind of thing has been talked about, as just around the corner
For years
The EFOY fuel cell came out a few years ago, listed for the marine market
IIRC
$3000 80 ampHr at 12v, almost 1KwHr of power total per pound of propane

A generator is more fuel efficient than these fuel cells, and has greater power capability