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CarnationSailor
Nomad
Apr 21, 2021

Satellite Antenna Installation in Seattle Area

I'm looking for advice on which satellite system to get for my 5th as well as recommendations for who to hire to do the antenna installation.

Here is what I think I want, but am interested in hearing what others like and why:

DISH because I can turn the service on and off on a monthly basis.

A roof mounted antenna because I don't want something else to pull out and setup whenever we stop.

An antenna that is NOT enclosed in a dome to avoid signal degrading by water droplets on the dome.

A receiver that includes a DVR is a must.

A system that will automatically point the antenna correctly.

Installation by a mobile tech, but I could take it to an installer if they can guarantee same day installation.

So what system did you go with and who did a great job installing it?

Thanks,
Gene

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Here is what I think I want, but am interested in hearing what others like and why:

DISH because I can turn the service on and off on a monthly basis.

A roof mounted antenna because I don't want something else to pull out and setup whenever we stop.

An antenna that is NOT enclosed in a dome to avoid signal degrading by water droplets on the dome.

A receiver that includes a DVR is a must.

A system that will automatically point the antenna correctly.

Installation by a mobile tech, but I could take it to an installer if they can guarantee same day installation.

So what system did you go with and who did a great job installing it?

Thanks,
Gene","body@stringLength":"893","rawBody":"I'm looking for advice on which satellite system to get for my 5th as well as recommendations for who to hire to do the antenna installation.

Here is what I think I want, but am interested in hearing what others like and why:

DISH because I can turn the service on and off on a monthly basis.

A roof mounted antenna because I don't want something else to pull out and setup whenever we stop.

An antenna that is NOT enclosed in a dome to avoid signal degrading by water droplets on the dome.

A receiver that includes a DVR is a must.

A system that will automatically point the antenna correctly.

Installation by a mobile tech, but I could take it to an installer if they can guarantee same day installation.

So what system did you go with and who did a great job installing it?

Thanks,
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Here is what I think I want, but am interested in 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list-style-type: none;\n margin: auto;\n padding-left: 0;\n\n li {\n display: inline;\n margin: 0 $theme-space-small;\n }\n }\n}\n","texts":{"custom.footer.col01.text.01":"Home","custom.footer.col01.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/","custom.footer.col01.text.02":"About Us","custom.footer.col01.url.02":"https://www.goodsam.com/about/","custom.footer.col01.text.03":"Contact Us","custom.footer.col01.url.03":"https://www.goodsam.com/contact","custom.footer.col01.text.04":"FAQ","custom.footer.col01.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/faq/","custom.footer.col01.text.05":"Site Map","custom.footer.col01.url.05":"https://www.goodsam.com/site-map.aspx","custom.footer.col02.text.01":"Code of Conduct","custom.footer.col02.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/code-of-conduct.aspx","custom.footer.col02.text.02":"Affiliate Program","custom.footer.col02.url.02":"https://www.goodsam.com/affiliate/","custom.footer.col02.text.03":"Become a Good Sam 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Assistance","custom.footer.row02.url.06":"https://www.goodsam.com/helping-hand","custom.footer.social.facebook.text":"Facebook","custom.footer.social.facebook.url":"https://www.facebook.com/GoodSam","custom.footer.social.twitter.text":"Twitter","custom.footer.social.twitter.url":"https://twitter.com/GoodSam","custom.footer.social.youtube.text":"YouTube","custom.footer.social.youtube.url":"https://www.youtube.com/user/goodsamrvers","custom.footer.social.instagram.text":"Instagram","custom.footer.social.instagram.url":"https://www.instagram.com/goodsam/?hl=en","custom.footer.social.pinterest.text":"Pinterest","custom.footer.social.pinterest.url":"https://www.pinterest.com/goodsam/","custom-community-footer-copyright.text":"© {0} Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All rights reserved."},"defaults":{"config":{"applicablePages":[],"description":"","fetchedContent":null,"__typename":"ComponentConfiguration"},"props":[],"__typename":"ComponentProperties"},"components":[{"id":"custom.widget.CustomFooter","form":null,"config":null,"props":[],"__typename":"Component"}],"grouping":"CUSTOM","__typename":"ComponentTemplate"},"properties":{"config":{"applicablePages":[],"description":"","fetchedContent":null,"__typename":"ComponentConfiguration"},"props":[],"__typename":"ComponentProperties"},"form":null,"__typename":"Component","localOverride":false},"globalCss":{"css":".custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-wrapper_hp49n_21 {\n background: #474442;\n\n a {\n color: #dfdfdf;\n font-weight: 100;\n\n &:focus,\n &:hover {\n color: #dfdfdf;\n }\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_sr-only_hp49n_34 {\n position: absolute;\n width: 0.0625rem;\n height: 0.0625rem;\n margin: -0.0625rem;\n padding: 0;\n overflow: hidden;\n clip: rect(0, 0, 0, 0);\n border: 0;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer_hp49n_21 {\n line-height: 1.25rem;\n /* margin-left: auto;\n\tmargin-right: auto;\n\tpadding-left: $bootstrap-padding;\n\tpadding-right: $bootstrap-padding; */\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_container_hp49n_52 {\n margin-left: auto;\n margin-right: auto;\n max-width: 73.125rem;\n padding-left: 0.9375rem;\n padding-right: 0.9375rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_row_hp49n_60 {\n /* HOTFIX - PSDS-32115 - Remove negative margins to fix mobile display */\n\n &::after {\n clear: both;\n }\n\n &::after,\n &::before {\n content: ' ';\n display: table;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col_hp49n_74 {\n float: left;\n min-height: 0.0625rem;\n padding-left: 0.9375rem;\n padding-right: 0.9375rem;\n position: relative;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-xs-10_hp49n_82,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-sm-10_hp49n_83 {\n width: 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order: 1;\n }\n\n &.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-terms-order-2_hp49n_435 {\n order: 2;\n }\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-bottom_hp49n_441 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-top: 0.625rem;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-bottom-list-center_hp49n_446 {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n flex-wrap: wrap;\n float: none;\n margin: 0 auto;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n li {\n display: inline;\n padding: 0 1.25rem;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n border-right: 1px solid #666;\n padding: 0;\n\n &:first-child a {\n padding-left: 0;\n }\n\n &:last-child {\n border-right: 0;\n\n a {\n padding-right: 0;\n }\n }\n }\n\n a {\n display: inline-block;\n font-size: 0.875rem;\n padding: 0.625rem;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: inline;\n font-size: 0.75rem;\n padding: 0 0.75rem 0 0.625rem;\n }\n }\n }\n 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Satellite Antenna Installation in Seattle Area","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3470789"},"body":"Cool! 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LouLawrence wrote:
I should also mention that I do not believe the \"outdoor package\" that allows month to month usage is available if you go with the Hopper/Joey combination so be sure you check with DISH as to their receiver requirements. I know you have to purchase the hardware to get that plan ($$$ Hopper) but I seem to remember it was meant for use with a dome and a Wally.


I have two purchased Hoppers and a Joey on my \"Outdoors\" pay-as-you-go account. My dish is a 1000.4 full sized dish mounted on a portable tripod.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-04-22T18:31:54.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-04-22T18:31:54.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":382},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:RVTalk/community:feyqc97479board:RVMustHaves/message:3470781/message:3470788","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"567","rawBody":"
LouLawrence wrote:
I should also mention that I do not believe the \"outdoor package\" that allows month to month usage is available if you go with the Hopper/Joey combination so be sure you check with DISH as to their receiver requirements. I know you have to purchase the hardware to get that plan ($$$ Hopper) but I seem to remember it was meant for use with a dome and a Wally.


I have two purchased Hoppers and a Joey on my \"Outdoors\" pay-as-you-go account. My dish is a 1000.4 full sized dish mounted on a portable tripod.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3470788_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3470787":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3470787","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3470787":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:256860"},"id":"message:3470787","revisionNum":1,"uid":3470787,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVMustHaves"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3470781"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3470781"},"subject":"Re: Satellite Antenna Installation in Seattle Area","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3470787"},"body":"I should also mention that I do not believe the \"outdoor package\" that allows month to month usage is available if you go with the Hopper/Joey combination so be sure you check with DISH as to their receiver requirements. I know you have to purchase the hardware to get that plan ($$$ Hopper) but I seem to remember it was meant for use with a dome and a Wally.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-04-22T12:35:39.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-04-22T12:35:39.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":382},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:RVTalk/community:feyqc97479board:RVMustHaves/message:3470781/message:3470787","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"361","rawBody":"I should also mention that I do not believe the \"outdoor package\" that allows month to month usage is available if you go with the Hopper/Joey combination so be sure you check with DISH as to their receiver requirements. I know you have to purchase the hardware to get that plan ($$$ Hopper) but I seem to remember it was meant for use with a dome and a Wally.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3470787_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"User:user:231087":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:231087","uid":231087,"login":"lryrob9301","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2009-01-23T18:30:39.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-1.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:231087"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3470786":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3470786","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3470786":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:231087"},"id":"message:3470786","revisionNum":1,"uid":3470786,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVMustHaves"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3470781"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3470781"},"subject":"Re: Satellite Antenna Installation in Seattle Area","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3470786"},"body":"The best open face automatic DISH antenna is the R F Mogul Eagle. If something goes wrong it is repairable on the road unlike the Winegard units that have to be removed and sent back for repair. Any parts needed can be purchased from R F Mogul unlike Winegard that will not sell you repair parts.

R F Mogul Eagle

Where to buy","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-04-22T08:39:21.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-04-22T08:39:21.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":383},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:RVTalk/community:feyqc97479board:RVMustHaves/message:3470781/message:3470786","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"649","rawBody":"The best open face automatic DISH antenna is the R F Mogul Eagle. If something goes wrong it is repairable on the road unlike the Winegard units that have to be removed and sent back for repair. Any parts needed can be purchased from R F Mogul unlike Winegard that will not sell you repair parts.

R F Mogul Eagle

Where to buy","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3470786_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"User:user:2086":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:2086","uid":2086,"login":"rhagfo","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2012-07-06T09:49:57.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-12.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:40"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:2086"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3470785":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3470785","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3470785":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:2086"},"id":"message:3470785","revisionNum":1,"uid":3470785,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVMustHaves"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3470781"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3470781"},"subject":"Re: Satellite Antenna Installation in Seattle Area","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3470785"},"body":"
CarnationSailor wrote:
I'm looking for advice on which satellite system to get for my 5th as well as recommendations for who to hire to do the antenna installation.

Here is what I think I want, but am interested in hearing what others like and why:

DISH because I can turn the service on and off on a monthly basis.

A roof mounted antenna because I don't want something else to pull out and setup whenever we stop.

An antenna that is NOT enclosed in a dome to avoid signal degrading by water droplets on the dome.

A receiver that includes a DVR is a must.

A system that will automatically point the antenna correctly.

Installation by a mobile tech, but I could take it to an installer if they can guarantee same day installation.

So what system did you go with and who did a great job installing it?

Thanks,
Gene


It is still my understanding you can cancel and start your service whenever you want, for a day, a weekend, week or month. At startup you only need to pay for the time previously used to restart the service. Worth the time to call to cancel your service as their least expensive package is still about $70 a month.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-04-22T05:49:53.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-04-22T05:49:53.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":385},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:RVTalk/community:feyqc97479board:RVMustHaves/message:3470781/message:3470785","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"1308","rawBody":"
CarnationSailor wrote:
I'm looking for advice on which satellite system to get for my 5th as well as recommendations for who to hire to do the antenna installation.

Here is what I think I want, but am interested in hearing what others like and why:

DISH because I can turn the service on and off on a monthly basis.

A roof mounted antenna because I don't want something else to pull out and setup whenever we stop.

An antenna that is NOT enclosed in a dome to avoid signal degrading by water droplets on the dome.

A receiver that includes a DVR is a must.

A system that will automatically point the antenna correctly.

Installation by a mobile tech, but I could take it to an installer if they can guarantee same day installation.

So what system did you go with and who did a great job installing it?

Thanks,
Gene


It is still my understanding you can cancel and start your service whenever you want, for a day, a weekend, week or month. At startup you only need to pay for the time previously used to restart the service. Worth the time to call to cancel your service as their least expensive package is still about $70 a month.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3470785_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3470784":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3470784","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3470784":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:256860"},"id":"message:3470784","revisionNum":1,"uid":3470784,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:RVMustHaves"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3470781"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3470781"},"subject":"Re: Satellite Antenna Installation in Seattle Area","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3470784"},"body":"Winegard Trav'ler or the RF Mogul antenna are, by far, your best choice. They are both expensive but they are highly dependable and give you the exact same service you would have in your home. These days the dome antennas just don't allow for the use of the sophisticated DVR's available from DISH and DTV. Once you have that experience you would never go back.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-04-22T05:27:19.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-04-22T05:27:19.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":384},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:RVTalk/community:feyqc97479board:RVMustHaves/message:3470781/message:3470784","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"364","rawBody":"Winegard Trav'ler or the RF Mogul antenna are, by far, your best choice. They are both expensive but they are highly dependable and give you the exact same service you would have in your home. These days the dome antennas just don't allow for the use of the sophisticated DVR's available from DISH and DTV. 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