Negotiating with dealers to Nada "average price"?

[cchorney]

I am new to RVs, and I did search on this topic first, so please forgive me if the answer is obvious or it's a daily topic that I managed to miss finding.

Is it possible (or likely) to negotiate to the Nadaguide "average price" with a dealer? If not, how aggressively can a price be negotiated down from "list price" for a used RV?

Looking at this example (which looks like I won't be looking at for long - sale pending - but lets use it anyway):

2000 Coachmen Catalina 195K
Selling Price: $17,995.00
Mileage: 33,000

Nadaguide says that for my zip code and the listed mileage, the average retail price should be $10,986.

That's a big difference in price between what they are listing it at and what the guide says it should be selling for. Is it realistic for me to expect that level of flexibility on the dealer's part? Assuming there are no extra accessories added that would increase the value of the RV, how low can I negotiate (excluding dealer setup, taxes, title, and other fees)?

Thanks, Chris

Link to ad: http://www.flaggrv.com/default.asp?page=xInventoryDetail&id=791693&p=2&vc=class%20c&s=Price&d=D&vt=motorhome

Link to nadaguide for that yr/made/model: http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2000/Coachmen/M-195-RK-Ford-_/3005035/Values

[cchorney]

kcmoedoe wrote:
It's a 15 year old rig with 195,000 miles.

This actually had me going in that mindset for a while, until I looked it up and it's a bad job of showing the year/make/model. It is a "2000 Coachmen Catalina Sport Series M-195 RK-Ford" with 33,000 miles.

That said, everything else you suggest is spot on and good guidance, thank you!

[kcmoedoe]

It's a 15 year old rig with 195,000 miles. No book has any idea what it is worth. On something like that, condition is really all that counts. 15 years ago, most RV manufacturers were still putting cassette tape decks in the entertainment centers and the 27 inch television weighed 100 pounds. Has this rig been updated with newer electronics? Do the seats look and feel like a 300 lb'er has driven nearly to the moon sitting on them. Is the carpet worn out, or has it been replaced. Has the engine been serviced, belts and hoses replaced, or does it cough like it has been smoking unfiltered cigarettes for the last 15 years? Is it on the first set of tires, the almost worn out second set or does it have new rubber? 15 years sitting in the sun could have turned the paint into chalk. I believe Bill Clinton said it best: "It's the condition, stupid!"

[tatest]

cchorney wrote:

puttd wrote:
One item to add on pricing-- check the ppl website for solds. if you find a similar model,similar age, you have a comp to argue about.

I'm sorry, what is the ppl website? I have been keeping an eye on closed ebay auctions for comparable prices, if that's what you mean.

PPL is a consignment dealer in Houston. It is the only dealer I know of that makes a practice of posting, for a while after the sale, the price at which a unit sold. I think they do this as guidance for their customers in setting asking prices, as they don't like to take consignments at prices that prevent sales.

What a RV sells for in Houston may not be relevant to the market in Florida, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Phoenix, or Boston. Each market is different, supply vs demand, incentives to sell, but at least Houston is far enough away from major retirement and snowbird areas that not too many "distress" sales depress prices from a national norm.

I know NADA price guides are supposed to reflect regional markets, and while they do for cars, the RV market is not big enough to produce reliable price information, and you are probably looking at depreciation tables applied to original prices, with inflation adjustments. The numbers also may the same nationally, failing to catch the reality that used RVs might sell for a whole lot more in the Northeast or Northwest than the market prices in SW desert retirement communities, Texas, or South Florida.

[cchorney]

puttd wrote:
One item to add on pricing-- check the ppl website for solds. if you find a similar model,similar age, you have a comp to argue about.

I'm sorry, what is the ppl website? I have been keeping an eye on closed ebay auctions for comparable prices, if that's what you mean.

[puttd]

One item to add on pricing-- check the ppl website for solds. if you find a similar model,similar age, you have a comp to argue about.

[ol__yeller]

TXiceman wrote:
In my area, a realistic price for a used RV is LOW NADA retail, with no options added. I would offer 10% under standard LOW Retail.

Ken

Excellent advice!

[ol__yeller]

darsben wrote:

ol' yeller wrote:
You have to be very careful when you value from NADA and start adding options. If you read the notices on the NADA website, you shouldn't add anything that came standard on the coach from the manufacturer. That means cruise control, driver's side doors, refrigerators, air conditioners, generators and such are not to added on most models. My Credit Union will loan 100% of average retail but they don't add any options and only make an allowance (or deduction) for mileage. Generally when I am valuing an RV I use the NADA low retail (you know a dealer wouldn't have paid more than that) and then add or subtract for mileage. I may increase for things like full body paint or hydraulic levelers but not very much.

If it is a private seller, the most they would ever get from a dealer is wholesale and I have no way to determine what that number would be but it is NOT NADA low retail.

Any RV salesperson worth their salt will get your contact information in the very early stages. Make sure they have your cell phone because the likelihood of them calling before you get home is very high. I've even gotten a call weeks later (it was too late). If they don't call back then your offer isn't reasonable. Don't be put off when the dealer is asking way above NADA. They are just spitballing to see what sticks to the wall. I've had dealers drop $20,000 (on a Class C) before we begin negotiations in earnest.

In my scenario I would NOT give the dealer my phone number etc until I followed my rules. I am trying to control the negotiations not let the dealer lead me

Once you leave the lot, you have the control. If the dealer calls you, he has to agree to your terms to get you back on his lot.

[tatest]

cchorney wrote:

BStrummin wrote:
Dealer or PP, it's always AS IS.

Is that always the case? I have an expectation of an internal inspection report and at least a 30 or 90 day warranty, same as with a used car.

In most states, used RVs are sold AS-IS even if there is a different practice for used cars. If state law requires a warranty, cost of providing that would go some way toward explaining a much higher asking price. Warranties are never "free" as the cost of warranty service simply gets rolled into the price of the product, though not necessarily itemized.

[darsben]

cchorney wrote:

BStrummin wrote:
Dealer or PP, it's always AS IS.

Is that always the case? I have an expectation of an internal inspection report and at least a 30 or 90 day warranty, same as with a used car.

99 times out of 100. Once you leave the lot it is your problem the dealer will try to sell you a VERY HIGH markup after market warranty.
That is the reason for a very thorough pre-payment inspection with all items checked and working BEFORE repeat BEFORE paying for the unit.

[TXiceman]

In my area, a realistic price for a used RV is LOW NADA retail, with no options added. I would offer 10% under standard LOW Retail.

Ken

[cchorney]

BStrummin wrote:
Dealer or PP, it's always AS IS.

Is that always the case? I have an expectation of an internal inspection report and at least a 30 or 90 day warranty, same as with a used car.

[BStrummin]

I gave up trying to deal with used RV dealers over this stuff. Almost all of them were asking ridiculous amounts over NADA, while private party folks generally knew of NADA and priced their rigs accordingly and within limits. The only benefit from buying from them would be you know who to scream at when something breaks. Dealer or PP, it's always AS IS. No reason to pay several thousand dollars more.

[darsben]

ol' yeller wrote:
You have to be very careful when you value from NADA and start adding options. If you read the notices on the NADA website, you shouldn't add anything that came standard on the coach from the manufacturer. That means cruise control, driver's side doors, refrigerators, air conditioners, generators and such are not to added on most models. My Credit Union will loan 100% of average retail but they don't add any options and only make an allowance (or deduction) for mileage. Generally when I am valuing an RV I use the NADA low retail (you know a dealer wouldn't have paid more than that) and then add or subtract for mileage. I may increase for things like full body paint or hydraulic levelers but not very much.

If it is a private seller, the most they would ever get from a dealer is wholesale and I have no way to determine what that number would be but it is NOT NADA low retail.

Any RV salesperson worth their salt will get your contact information in the very early stages. Make sure they have your cell phone because the likelihood of them calling before you get home is very high. I've even gotten a call weeks later (it was too late). If they don't call back then your offer isn't reasonable. Don't be put off when the dealer is asking way above NADA. They are just spitballing to see what sticks to the wall. I've had dealers drop $20,000 (on a Class C) before we begin negotiations in earnest.

In my scenario I would NOT give the dealer my phone number etc until I followed my rules. I am trying to control the negotiations not let the dealer lead me

[ol__yeller]

You have to be very careful when you value from NADA and start adding options. If you read the notices on the NADA website, you shouldn't add anything that came standard on the coach from the manufacturer. That means cruise control, driver's side doors, refrigerators, air conditioners, generators and such are not to added on most models. My Credit Union will loan 100% of average retail but they don't add any options and only make an allowance (or deduction) for mileage. Generally when I am valuing an RV I use the NADA low retail (you know a dealer wouldn't have paid more than that) and then add or subtract for mileage. I may increase for things like full body paint or hydraulic levelers but not very much.

If it is a private seller, the most they would ever get from a dealer is wholesale and I have no way to determine what that number would be but it is NOT NADA low retail.

Any RV salesperson worth their salt will get your contact information in the very early stages. Make sure they have your cell phone because the likelihood of them calling before you get home is very high. I've even gotten a call weeks later (it was too late). If they don't call back then your offer isn't reasonable. Don't be put off when the dealer is asking way above NADA. They are just spitballing to see what sticks to the wall. I've had dealers drop $20,000 (on a Class C) before we begin negotiations in earnest.