2 Q's: Turning Radius & Tongue Weight

[ChristyFord]

First, can someone please explain in newbie language how to calculate turning radius and how to use that information when towing?

Second, I understand that TW contributes to GVW of your TV, but I've read in a couple forums now that it DOES NOT contribute to GCW, that you should subtract it from your calculations at that point... fact or fiction?

[centerline]

the specs of the vehicle will have the turning radius listed... as for calculating, you just need to drive the rig enough to learn what you can do with it and what you cant... pulling a hundered foot measuring tape out to find out if you have enough room according to the turning radius numbers given in the specs of the vehicle isnt going to help much, because it NO INDICATION that you and your abilities will be able to navigate (going forward or backing in)the area where you want to go.... driving the vehicle and learning its turning radius going forward AND backing up can teach you these skills.

[Grit_dog]

Nothing to calculate. Turning radius is a published spec for all vehicles I'm sure. It will be the same with a trailer provided you have full range of motion when turning the trailer (i.e. No bike rack in the way of a tight turn with the trailer etc).
Again, like your other 2 threads...go tow a trailer around for an afternoon, make it a date, lol. You'll answer a lot of your own questions.

[Bipeflier]

You can easily "jack knife" any trailer/truck combo when backing up!

An experienced driver can also put nearly any combo into any campsite!

Practice, practice, practice, then do it some more.

Short truck with longer trailer is GENERALLY easier to back than long truck with short trailer.

[blt2ski]

Hitch weight is imho, not part of gcw per say. That is counted towards payload of tv. Yes total trailer weight includes hitch and axle loads.
Taking gcw led truck weight and passengers, does not give you a true what you can tow per gcw. If tow rig is at max gvw, you have no tow capacity, assuming you want the trailer to have a minimum 10%. Reality is, a lb of weight added to the tow rig, takes away 10 lbs of trailer capacity.
If you have 1000 lbs of payload, you have up to 10,000 lbs of max trailer total weight with 10% hitch weight. 1000 lbs on hitch, 9000 on trailer axles.
If you need 25% hw, like on a 5w, and you have 1000 lbs of payload.left. you have a whopping 4000 lbs of maximum trailer weight! 1000 on hitch, 3000 on axles.
Pretty simple math if you do it right. If not, you're screwed. I never use manufactures gcwr to figure out my.max trailer capacity. "Remaining payload, divided by hw% I need" 1000/.10= 10,000 or 1000/.25 = 4000

Marty

[mosseater]

the only way you're going to get a turning radius number for any given TV/TT combo is to hook it up and go see how tight a circle you can cut before something makes contact that shouldn't. No way to calculate that. Some can go til the bumper contacts the A frame, some might bind elswhere before that point. It really is only useful in helping get the feel of how tightly you can turn. As someone already pointed out, we don't measure all the turns before we take them anyhow. I try to look ahead and layout my difficult turns visually and shoot for the outside edge that will give me the best line. It really is mostly feel. For the first few years I had two dots drawn on either side of the center line of the trailer that I could reference in my mirrors. When I could line up those dots along the side of the truck looking in the mirror it was time to stop decreasing radius. Works great for getting the feel of how sharp you can turn. Find an area with some room, put the trailer at impending bind relative to the truck, sit in the seat and make a mark on the front of the trailer in line with the truck. When you see that dot getting into your view, don't go sharper. No sin in backing up sometimes.
And remember when making a turn with limited room inside, don't straighten the truck out until the trailer wheels clear the apex. Hold the turn AFtER the turn. Sort of counter intuitive, but when you straighten too soon, it pulls the tongue closer to the inside rapidly, and brings the trailer wheels closer insider, and sooner.

[BurbMan]

Chuck_thehammer wrote:
in 45 years of trailering ..(all types) I never needed full lock to back anything.

Then you haven't been in the really good CGs :B

Agree about not holding wheel against the lock, you will damage the PS pump.

[SoundGuy]

Chuck_thehammer wrote:
turning radius ,, truck wheel base... and where the limits of the steering stops are...

inside the steering box and limits of steering parts controlling the wheels..

so its NOT just wheel base..

different steering designs....

Of course, I never said turning radius was solely limited to just wheelbase. What I did say was - "As for turning radius generally speaking the shorter the wheelbase of the vehicle the tighter will be it's turning radius" ... a true statement. 😉

[Chuck_thehammer]

turning radius ,, truck wheel base... and where the limits of the steering stops are...

inside the steering box and limits of steering parts controlling the wheels..

my car port. is behind the house..

my 2004 Ram 1500 2 door short bed.. makes the hard right turn into car port easy
my 2012 F250... supercab long bed.. ( 4 feet longer ) need a 3 point turn to get into car port..

so its NOT just wheel base.. the F 250 can not turn the front wheels as tight/hard...

different steering designs....

rack and pinion ver reciprocating ball steering boxes...

in 45 years of trailering ..(all types) I never needed full lock to back anything.

besides going Full Lock on a power steering system .. Its bad on the Power Steering pump..
some but not all have a pressure limit stitch.. to reduce possible damage.

[gmw_photos]

ChristyFord I sent you a PM ( private message, you will see it at the top right of your user screen when logged in ).

[TXiceman]

troubledwaters wrote:

SoundGuy wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
Turning radius is useless in all aspects of driving. Can you reference where you were told that it was relevant to towing?

As far as I'm concerned "driving" and "towing" also includes backing my trailer into a campsite ... and that certainly is where turning radius is important.

So please tell me what turning radius I need on my next truck. I sure don't want to get the wrong one.

The turning radius is what you get. The longer the wheelbase on a particular truck, the larger the turning radius.

Also, the trailer track will be inside your truck track.

Ken

[troubledwaters]

SoundGuy wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
Turning radius is useless in all aspects of driving. Can you reference where you were told that it was relevant to towing?

As far as I'm concerned "driving" and "towing" also includes backing my trailer into a campsite ... and that certainly is where turning radius is important.

So please tell me what turning radius I need on my next truck. I sure don't want to get the wrong one.

[SoundGuy]

mkirsch wrote:
Turning radius is useless in all aspects of driving. Can you reference where you were told that it was relevant to towing?

As far as I'm concerned "driving" and "towing" also includes backing my trailer into a campsite ... and that certainly is where turning radius is important.

[mkirsch]

Turning radius is useless in all aspects of driving. Can you reference where you were told that it was relevant to towing?

[BurbMan]

Turning radius is calculated by the engineers who design the TV, it's part of the vehicle spec. Look up specs for your TV and you'll find the turning radius.
That number is only useful in comparing how tightly one vehicle turns compared to another, it's not something you can use on the road simply because you don't measure turns before you enter them. Also, your effective turning radius changes while towing. The TV turns the same, but you won't make it through the same tight turn with a trailer behind you.

Yes, TW is added to GCWR and it is a spec worth paying attention to. For example here are the numbers on my TV:
Weight empty 6700
GVWR 8600
Tow rating 12000
GCWR 19000

So if I want to tow 12000 lbs, I subtract that from my GCWR and the truck can only weigh 7000, so basically a full tank and a driver. If want to load my truck to the max with passengers and cargo, subtract 8600 from the 19000 GCWR and that means my max trailer weight can be 10400.

In the real world, the last time I had the rig weighed with the family on board, the truck was 8600, TT was 8700, GCW was 17300. TW on my rig is about 1200.