2015 Ford Expedition - Largest TT I can pull SAFELY?

[tama2112]

Hi Everyone,
I am brand new to this forum and TT's. I've been doing some reading here and its all be very helpful. I'm not sure there is a topic specifically on the newer Expedition so wanted to post here. I am trading in for a 2015 Ford Expedition (not EL) w/ HD towing package. Specs:

4x4 3.5L V6 EcoBoost
GCWR: 15,200 lbs
Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight: 9,200 lbs
Payload Capacity: 1,650lbs

I do NOT want to push the limits of the Expedition. I have a family of 4 and want to get the largest that I can safely tow (both in weight and length.

Could I get your recommendations please?

Matthew

[APT]

One note about that UltraLite 28DDBH: 3500 pound axles and 8800 pound GVWR.

You'll add more than 400 pounds for a long weekend. You could have more than 400 pounds of fresh water alone! Food, clothes, eating and cookware, bedding, games, chairs, toys, bikes, etc. They all add up. Typically, expect 1000 pounds over dry weight.

Also, please open the driver's door, locate the tire and loading sticker. Note what it has for as equipped payload where mine says 2051.

[PUCampin]

More specifically, you can't put the tongue weight of a TRAVEL TRAILER which is usually 12 to 15 percent plus you and your gear and haul it. There is a HUGE difference between a travel trailer and something like a boat trailer, a distinction neither the manufacture nor the RV salesman will make.

Most boat trailers have around 10 percent tongue weight. They are low profile and sleek with low aerodynamic drag so they are stable at 10 percent. The maximum hitch weight for Expedition is 920lbs. Notice how this is 10 percent of 9200lbs? My 07 Expedition EL has a similar maximum cargo capacity at 1672lbs. I could load up my family of 5 plus a cooler and beach toys and have 920lbs left available for tongue weight. Hook up a 9000lb boat and head for the river, and I will be within all limits! Ever notice what almost all SUVs are towing in their ads? Almost always big boats!

Now lets look at TT. My family of 5 and cooler still weighs 600lbs so I still have 920lbs available for tongue weight, and it would be the same if it was just me in the Expedition, the tongue weight is limited by the receiver. TT mostly have a huge flat front with massive aerodynamic drag. You are towing a barn door. At 10 percent tongue weight, the drag pushes back on the trailer so hard it can induce sway and become unstable, this is why travel trailers are 12-15 percent. Lets use 14 percent

920 / 0.14 = 6571lbs.

This is loaded ready to go camping. Since "dry" weight never includes anything lets start subtracting. We dry camp so we always have a full fresh tank of water, Ill look at my trailer add ons

Water 56 x 8.3= 464lbs
Propane 4.3 x 15 = 64.5
Batteries 2 x 65lbs = 130
Spare tire = 40
Leveling jacks = 40
TV/video = 10

So I have 750lbs before even adding food pots clothes etc. So even if you have smaller tanks than me, it is easy for a family of 4 or 5 to add 1000lbs over the dry weight of a trailer. So if you take that 1000lbs off the 6571 you are looking at trailers with dry weights of around 5500lbs.

This is why many of us use 5500 to 6000lbs dry as a general rule of thumb with a couple exceptions when talking about any half ton SUV or truck, and actually many half tons have less or much less payload than the Expy which further limits options.

Of your choices the Aerolite 242 is the best one, the 250 is pushing the limits. Anything more and you are first going to exceed the receiver limit of 920lbs followed shortly by the rear axle limit shortly followed by the payload limit.

I am so glad you are taking what the salesman tells you with a grain of salt and doing your research first. I am a Mechanical Engineer and have run numbers many times using my Expy and different trailers as well as played with other tow vehicle numbers. PM me if you have any questions. Good luck to you and stay safe!

[Aron]

My 2015 Expy 4x4 (Non-EL) weighs 6100 lbs with a full tank of gas and nobody in it. I would revisit some of those assumed weights.

[humblerb]

tama2112 wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
No. Too heavy once loaded and ready to camp to tow comfortably.

You want something <7000lbs totally loaded with water and all your stuff.

Thanks for the reply! You'll find my RV salesperson's response interesting (as I said you really can't trust them):

For clarification of terms: GVWR on the UltraLite 28DDBH is 8800 lbs. This is what the camper axles have the capability to carry, the camper & everything in it. Unloaded weight is 7180 lbs. + 400 lbs of your personal stuff = approx. 7600 lbs. behind a vehicle that can tow 9200 lbs. Chances are that you'll never have the UltraLite weigh 8800 lbs. - you'd have to put 1600 lbs. of stuff in it - don't foresee that happening.

So, 15200 (Expedition GCWR) - 5864 (Expedition max curb weigh) - 480 (family) - 7600 (camper loaded) = 1256 left. This math makes sense to me. If the max GVWR of the camper can only be 7800 lbs., why would the Expedition have a towing capacity of 9200 lbs.? Honestly, the UltraLite will be fine behind the Expedition.

I have this same argument with my wife every time she wants to "upgrade".
If you hook up a tow strap and put your vehicle in D, you can tow 9200#. What you can't do is put the tongue weight of an 8800# trailer with WDH (1,150#) along with your other gear in the truck and "haul" it.
His simple math is correct, but he is telling you what you can tow and ignoring what you can haul.
And from personal experience, you don't want anything heavier than around 6,000# dry (7200# wet). I traded in a $30k trailer that was only 6 months old and took a $15k hit on it, because I was never comfortable towing it. This would have been the same 8800# trailer.

[tama2112]

mkirsch wrote:
No. Too heavy once loaded and ready to camp to tow comfortably.

You want something <7000lbs totally loaded with water and all your stuff.

Thanks for the reply! You'll find my RV salesperson's response interesting (as I said you really can't trust them):

For clarification of terms: GVWR on the UltraLite 28DDBH is 8800 lbs. This is what the camper axles have the capability to carry, the camper & everything in it. Unloaded weight is 7180 lbs. + 400 lbs of your personal stuff = approx. 7600 lbs. behind a vehicle that can tow 9200 lbs. Chances are that you'll never have the UltraLite weigh 8800 lbs. - you'd have to put 1600 lbs. of stuff in it - don't foresee that happening.

So, 15200 (Expedition GCWR) - 5864 (Expedition max curb weigh) - 480 (family) - 7600 (camper loaded) = 1256 left. This math makes sense to me. If the max GVWR of the camper can only be 7800 lbs., why would the Expedition have a towing capacity of 9200 lbs.? Honestly, the UltraLite will be fine behind the Expedition.

[mkirsch]

No. Too heavy once loaded and ready to camp to tow comfortably.

You want something <7000lbs totally loaded with water and all your stuff.

[tama2112]

What are your thoughts on the Winnebago UltraLite 28DDBH? It has the following specs:

Length: 30'7"
GVWR: 8,800 lbs
Dry Weight: 6,740 lbs

[Acdii]

With your payload rating, look at Coleman 274Bh. That's what I have and pull it with an F150. With all my family I am over my weight by #400. That is with 5 people in the truck, BUT my payload is only 1470# and I have a topper on the truck, and a generator in the bed. Max tongue weight I have measured with all our stuff and a full FWT is 764#. I am going out west next week and the trailer is fully stocked and ready to go, and before I pull out of the drive I wil weigh the tongue once more to verify the weight, but with a half tank of FW, I don't expect to be anywhere near the 764# it was at last time as I had my wife and kids stand where I think the FWT is located to get the reading.

Since there is no way I am getting rid of my truck for one with higher payload, we will just take two vehicles, my wife has a Focus that gets 40+MPG, so we have a getaroundtown vehicle with us. This way I can keep the topper on (#200), and take the generator (#100). With 3 adults and two kids, I would still be over the limits of my truck if I removed them, but with only 4 people, provided 2 are kids, no topper, and no generator, and a higher payload, I can see your Expy pulling my type of trailer without any issues.

[mkirsch]

You're right in doubting the salesman. The 9200lb rating is based on an EMPTY Expedition. No passengers. Nothing. Just you and the truck.

Over the years, I have seen many rigs come and go. It seems like 7000lbs is about the practical limit for that class of truck (i.e. Expedition, F150, 1500-series GMs and Rams), when there is a family in the truck with you (eating into the truck's payload capacity).

That's under 7000lbs, fully loaded and ready to camp. Full water. Food for the trip. Clothes, bedding, toys, bikes, etc..

I would personally look for a trailer with a dry weight at around 5500lbs.

Even at 7000lbs you're going to start wishing you had more truck after a while. It won't be unsafe, and not necessarily uncomfortable. You'll just be wishing you could accelerate faster, maintain speed better up hills, maybe get rid of the slightly mushy feeling that accompanies towing a trailer near the limits.

[The_Kroc]

we have a 2014 Espy w/tow package and tow a 2015 Jayco Jay Flight 24FBS that was 5240 lbs dry using an equalizer hitch. We loaded it to 6000 lbs last year and drove 8000 miles, mainly in the Rocky Mountains. Our tongue weight was 800 pounds. Sometimes it was loaded up with water as well. I would not want to tow more than what we did, I would think that a 30 ft trailer towed by a short base Expedition would not handle the wind gusts that we encountered on our trip. Hope this helps you, I was in the same quandary as you a year ago and was very pleased at how the Espy performed even in severe conditions.

[IdaD]

My sister and BIL pull a 6k gross ultralight with their '15 Expedition EL 3.5 Eco and it seems like a good match. Their trailer is 28' in total length but it has a rear queen slide so it expands out a bit from the towed length when parked.

The only things I dislike about it are that the ceilings feel very low and it has about 6" of ground clearance.

[APT]

Verify the payload on the tire and loading sticker as you shop. I suspect it will be closer to 1400 pounds. Subtract people/pets/a few things to occupy their time in and rest is available for trailer TW.

The other limit is the integrated receiver limit is about 950 pounds.

6k dry seems about right unless your family is really heavy.

[Rustycamperpant]

tama2112 wrote:
Hi All,
I updated the original post to include the payload capacity.

The TT's I'm looking are the:

1) Dutchmen Aerolite 250KBHS. Its a 32' w/ shipping weight of 6,036 lbs. Dry hitch weight of 774 lbs.
2) Dutchmen Aerolite 242BHS; Its a 28.6' w/ shipping weight of 5,575 lbs. Dry hitch weight of 735 lbs.

What are your thoughts?

You can easily tow either of these campers with the Expy. I tow a 29 ft TT in my signature without issue. I do not put water in the tanks though. I have an '09. Get rid of the Scorpion tires that are on it (if that is what it has) and get a good WD hitch. It may take a few tries to tune in the WD hitch.

Sometimes I envy those that have a 3/4 ton based SUV, but there aren't many around. Set your rig up right, sont take too much stuff and enjoy yourself.

[krobbe]

Take the 1,650 and subtract the weight of your family plus anything else you carry in the Exp. The result is the tongue weight the Exp can carry (make sure to stay below the receiver max with a WDH). Divide that by .15 and that is the largest GVWR trailer to look for. This calculation should give you some buffer.

Say your family weighs 650#.
So, 1650 - 650 = 1000.
1000 / .15 = 6667# gvwr.
6667-1500 = 5167 dry weight.