ACME vs American/Stehl - turning explanations needed

[Baja_Man]

Hello all--
In a previous post I asked for input on a few different dollies.

Now I need assistance in understanding the differences in how they turn.

The ACME is rigid and uses the towed vehicles steering to make right and left hand turns. Steering wheel is left UNLOCKED. Not sure of the physics behind this and if the turning causes stresses on the towed vehicles suspension, body, chassis, steering, etc. Since the turning is not the same as if the towed vehicles wheels/tires were on ground turning, it seems as though there are different physics going on that I do not fully understand.

The American/Stehls and other dollies use a swivel platform whereby the towed vehicles wheels are strapped down and steering wheel is LOCKED. When turning under tow, the platforms swivel and the vehicles steering never moves. Not sure what actually swivels and could not find any videos or pics showing how this works. Again, the physics of this type of dolly are also not clear to me.

Seems that most dollies use a swivel platform and the ACME may be the only one using a rigid frame with no swiveling, relying on towed vehicles steering to be what steers dolly.

According to American: the ACME puts undue stress on the towed vehicles front suspension, body, chassis, etc. Tires also wear very fast, are small in size (10") and difficult to find replacements. LED lights are expensive to replace (they tend to break as all others from kids, bicycles hitting them, storage accidents, etc.... where American lights are easily found at Walmart and much less expensive). And finally, the surge brakes experience quick failure from all of the debris tossed at them from being towed behind motor home (I am assuming exposed calipers vs enclosed drums)

So, what gives with all of this?

Swivel or no swivel AND why yes or no to each style?

[wbwood]

It looks like ACME is using 12" wheels now... Looks like more common tires size of ST145 R12.

[RJsfishin]

After you get a dolly with removable ramps tell us all how well you like messing with them after a couple of months. Big drawback.
-------------------------------------------------
X2,......removable ramps,.....perrish the thought !

[jergeod]

Baja Man wrote:

mowermech wrote:

Baja Man wrote:
Just found out that my 2012 Scion XB auto trans has a locking steering wheel which means I have to have the key set to ACC for steering wheel to unlock...this is a battery drain issue or one more step of disconnecting battery prior to towing

basically It's down to the differences.....

ACME...surge disc brakes, rigid dolly with no swiveling, small 10" wheels/tires, AND key must be in in ignition turned to ACC AND battery disconnected.

American Car Dolly.....electric brakes, swiveling cradle, standard 14" wheels/tires

I am leaning closer towards American due to key in ignition issue

Thoughts?

I think you are on the right track! Personally, if the DEMCO wasn't so dang expensive, I would run right down to the local dealer and get a new one. A used DEMCO and a new American are about the same price.
Decisions, Decisions...
I don't have to make up my mind until spring, though.

I agree the Demcos are built well and are a great dolly. However, the ramps are fixed and I prefer a removable ramp to avoid the potential for scrapping the lower rocker panels of my low riding Scion XB. Found a used Demco Kar Kaddy for $1000 (looks like an older version) and ramps are fixed.

After you get a dolly with removable ramps tell us all how well you like messing with them after a couple of months. Big drawback.

[Denver_Transpla]

When we graduated from our travel trailer to a Thor ACE 30.1 Class A, going with a TOAD was part of the deal. We bought a 2015 Mini Cooper S with an automatic (knees are much too old for a stick). For a tow dolly we were considering ACME and American Car Dolly and went with the American Car Dolly. Main drivers were price (ACME with shipping was about $1000 more than the American) and the fact that American is local to us (we are in SE Denver metro area and American is just down the road in Ft Morgan) and delivery to my door was included in the price.

After a season of towing the dolly, including a 2500 mile R/T to northern California we've learned a few things

- The Mini has no problem getting up and down the ramps - a real concern with a very low clearance vehicle. I do have a couple of 2x6 blocks about a foot long that I use at the end of the ramps occasionally if the terrain isn't completely flat when loading/unloading.

- I do have to strap down the Mini steering wheel because it doesn't lock. However, I'm not sure of the value as the strap tends to work it way loose with no apparent effect. Despite all the talk about front wheels turning and not turning, I'm not convinced that there is any real reason to tie down the steering wheel. I think that if I don't all that will happen is that things will balance - if the cradle turns, the wheels don't turn (or turn only a little). Seems to me that the turning cradle was a response to the days when almost all vehicles had locking steering wheels and you had to have the turning base. If you have non-locking steering, I don't seen a reason to have to lock down the steering even if you have a turning cradle. (and the American cradle bolt looks like something you'd see on a high pressure vessel, so I have no concerns about it ever failing.)

- I've had problems with the American Car Dolly brake controller being too sensitive. I've had issues with brakes locking up on gravel and grabbing in slow speed traffic even when the gain is turned way down. No sure why but the Mini might be too light. This season I'm going to use my old Tekonsha P3 controller and see if that works better. At least I'll have gain control at the drivers seat and be able to turn if off if I need too.

- We use magnetic stop/turn lights on the roof of the Mini - I didn't want to get into digging into the real light wiring. I found a 4 pole plug wye cable to tap the signals off the motorhome. When I pull the American brake controller, I'll have to find a way to tap into the wiring a different way as I will need to plug the 7 pin into the motorhome 7 pin connector. With the American brake controller, all you use is a 4 pin. I'm searching for a adaptor that would have 7 pin pass through with a 4 pin tap, but it looks like no such thing exists.

- The Mini has nowhere to tie down safety chains. Last season I make sure I checked the wheel straps every hour of so and found that they often needed adjustment. This season, I've gotten some Blue Ox cables to run through the wheel spokes and will tie them to the dolly. Method to be determined when the weather clears enough to be able to bring the ACE home and try things out. Might be March/April.

- I think part of the need to make frequent strap adjustments is the small wheels on the Mini sliding on the cradle. Its a couple of inches wider than the tires so I'm going to look at adding blocks to the cradle so the tires won't slide back and forth (back while accelerating, forward while braking).

- I also have bought a couple extra sets of premium straps from American. The original set seemed to stretch more than I'd expected and with the small Mini tires (and above mentioned sliding) I was starting to pull the tire top straps to almost down to the ratchet. Plus while crossing Nevada it occurred to me that if I had a failed strap, I'd be in trouble, so we will now be traveling with an extra set

[Campinghoss]

Baja Man,

Reread my reply on your earlier post. That is the best way to explain inverted steering on a Acme dolly.

[mowermech]

Our '06 PT Cruiser Convertible rode the DEMCO dolly no problem. It was easy to load and unload, also, with the tilting table.
I should have kept that dolly. Selling it was a really dumb thing to do!

[Baja_Man]

mowermech wrote:

Baja Man wrote:
Just found out that my 2012 Scion XB auto trans has a locking steering wheel which means I have to have the key set to ACC for steering wheel to unlock...this is a battery drain issue or one more step of disconnecting battery prior to towing

basically It's down to the differences.....

ACME...surge disc brakes, rigid dolly with no swiveling, small 10" wheels/tires, AND key must be in in ignition turned to ACC AND battery disconnected.

American Car Dolly.....electric brakes, swiveling cradle, standard 14" wheels/tires

I am leaning closer towards American due to key in ignition issue

Thoughts?

I think you are on the right track! Personally, if the DEMCO wasn't so dang expensive, I would run right down to the local dealer and get a new one. A used DEMCO and a new American are about the same price.
Decisions, Decisions...
I don't have to make up my mind until spring, though.

I agree the Demcos are built well and are a great dolly. However, the ramps are fixed and I prefer a removable ramp to avoid the potential for scrapping the lower rocker panels of my low riding Scion XB. Found a used Demco Kar Kaddy for $1000 (looks like an older version) and ramps are fixed.

[carringb]

The big downside to surge brakes, is in slippery weather the wheels can lockup during braking, but to unlock the brake you have to give it some throttle to take the pressure off the master cylinder! And on steep downgrades, they can drag the whole way down until they start smoking (we had this problem with our boat) especially if you are engine braking.

Upside of course is no controller needed, which is especially useful if you want to tow it with multiple vehicles. And disc brakes are superior to drums for heat rejection, and surge discs are only a small upgrade over surge drums. But electric-over-hydraulic discs are a $$$ upgrade over electric drums.

[mowermech]

If I want to take both ATVs with me, I have to tow the 7X14 enclosed trailer to haul them. In order to tow that trailer with the motorhome, I must have an electric brake controller installed in the coach.
So, a dolly with electric brakes is not a problem. Of course, I can buy the trailer mounted brake controller from Tekonsha to add to the big trailer, and get the similar unit from American Car Dolly ($120 extra) on the dolly, and that will solve the problem rather nicely!
If you know for certain that you will never tow an electric brake equipped trailer with your coach, it is a moot point.

[TyroneandGladys]

Baja Man wrote:
Just found out that my 2012 Scion XB auto trans has a locking steering wheel which means I have to have the key set to ACC for steering wheel to unlock...this is a battery drain issue or one more step of disconnecting battery prior to towing

basically It's down to the differences.....

ACME...surge disc brakes, rigid dolly with no swiveling, small 10" wheels/tires, AND key must be in in ignition turned to ACC AND battery disconnected.

American Car Dolly.....electric brakes, swiveling craddle, standard 14" wheels/tires

I am leaning closer towards American due to key in ignition issue

Thoughts?

5.99 easy

[mowermech]

Baja Man wrote:
Just found out that my 2012 Scion XB auto trans has a locking steering wheel which means I have to have the key set to ACC for steering wheel to unlock...this is a battery drain issue or one more step of disconnecting battery prior to towing

basically It's down to the differences.....

ACME...surge disc brakes, rigid dolly with no swiveling, small 10" wheels/tires, AND key must be in in ignition turned to ACC AND battery disconnected.

American Car Dolly.....electric brakes, swiveling cradle, standard 14" wheels/tires

I am leaning closer towards American due to key in ignition issue

Thoughts?

I think you are on the right track! Personally, if the DEMCO wasn't so dang expensive, I would run right down to the local dealer and get a new one. A used DEMCO and a new American are about the same price.
Decisions, Decisions...
I don't have to make up my mind until spring, though.

[Baja_Man]

Just found out that my 2012 Scion XB auto trans has a locking steering wheel which means I have to have the key set to ACC for steering wheel to unlock...this is a battery drain issue or one more step of disconnecting battery prior to towing

basically It's down to the differences.....

ACME...surge disc brakes, rigid dolly with no swiveling, small 10" wheels/tires, AND key must be in in ignition turned to ACC AND battery disconnected.

American Car Dolly.....electric brakes, swiveling craddle, standard 14" wheels/tires

I am leaning closer towards American due to key in ignition issue

Thoughts?

[TyroneandGladys]

My two cents worth. I will probably be buying a dolly soon and it will probably be a ACME. Swivel platform dollies have been around for years and when they first came on the market there were very few front wheel drive cars so with the rear end on the dolly it has to swivel. ACME on the other hand is designed for front wheel drive cars. That is only my opinion and that and 95 cents will get you a coffee refill.

[Baja_Man]

I like the American Car Dolly and I am leaning in that direction, however.....

The electric brakes have me concerned due to the added parts and more to go wrong. The surge discs are what I like to the simplicity and experience I had with them on boat trailers. If I wanted to add a break away safety feature it sounds lie I would have to add a battery to dolly, correct? Another added part and weight.

I am really torn between the ACME and American. There is a used ACME by private party for $1000 that is complete, used for 2500 miles, and is 7 mos old.

So, at this point, my short list is....

USED ACME for $1000 (and $200 bucks in fuel to pick it up and one days drive: 4 hours away one way)....Total $1200

OR

NEW American Car Dolly for $1500 delivered to my home