This thread was closed but I would like to put get some knowledge of actuals that may be of opinion or hard facts.http://forums.woodalls.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28525924.cfmIm logical and am not the smartest tool in the shed, but I have a big shed....LOL..I will use my 1996 s10 rpo ZR2 as an example. Check these #'s to see where I am going with this in relation to the link above..My truck per door tagGVW 4900 lbsAxle ratings 2700Now facts about what I have.GM 8.5" 10 bolt rear. This is a 3750 lb rear per GM. 3.73Tires 31" LT 2270 lbs per tire @ 50 psi.. = 4540 lbsMy weakest link is my axles I assume.My trucks rear from scales weighs in at 1800 lbs.With that said 3750 lbs axles - 1800 lbs scale weight gives me a 1950 lbs payload.So if I beef up my spring pack to reflect 1950 lbs, I assume this truck can handle that weight per facts and #'s. ( I am now assuming my leafs may be the weakest link)How about some super springs?Super springs Just like the poster in the link above where others stated his axles can handle it but his tires were the weakest link.( And if he changed his tires,) That some saw no issue except maybe his COG..Theoretically with out talking about my v6 engine that probably could not haul that weight without burning up, the #'s state at a suspension stand point my payload is 1950 lbs..And at present time I tow that 4000 lb trailer in sig ( wet) with a 420 tongue. ( 340 with WD) Scale weight 2200 lbs on rear. Leaves me 500 lbs before I go over my door tag rating of 2700 lbs..And I can tell you I would not want to tow anything heavier..So what you all think? Am I missing something?

Sadly the biggest thing you missed is the smallest thing on your vehicle. That is the sticker on the drivers door post. There is nothing you can do to alter that. Secondly is cost! Upgrades, or rather add ons can become very expensive and add exactly zero to the vehicles value, and some can actually reduce a vehicles value.

GVWR - Actual Weight = PayloadANDYou must also be under you FAWR/RAWR also.

2oldman wrote:What is the question?Whats my real payload?And comparing to the thread I linked to that was closed with info on axles and tires...With that info the door sticker is a mute point if it says my axle rating 2700 when I indeed have 8.5" 10 bolt GM rear rated at 3750lbs..As any vehicle there is a weakest link.. Where is mine?I may want to get a TC like this.. 1200 lbs..http://www.livinlite.com/5_7-overview.php

lawrosa wrote:2oldman wrote:What is the question?Whats my real payload?And comparing to the thread I linked to that was closed with info on axles and tires...With that info the door sticker is a mute point if it says my axle rating 2700 when I indeed have 8.5" 10 bolt GM rear rated at 3750lbs..As any vehicle there is a weakest link.. Where is mine?I may want to get a TC like this.. 1200 lbs..http://www.livinlite.com/5_7-overview.phpThere is nothing you can do to MOD your truck to get any more capacity out of it beyond what is on that door sticker. That sticker contains your legal limits. Period.

Actual Payload of vehicles.... | Good Sam Community

lawrosa
Explorer
Aug 24, 2015
. If you think you can do it, and you're willing to accept any liabilities ranging from breaking something on your truck to killing a busload of nuns and orphans, then do what you think is best.

Thats funny... It made me chuckle..

I dont think I ever saw a bus full of nuns or orphans... he he
mkirsch
Nomad II
Aug 24, 2015
On a non-commercial vehicle, the only thing law enforcement is concerned with is how it LOOKS. If it looks like a road hazard, they will pull you over.

They have this very non-specific charge they can use at their discretion, called "unsafe vehicle." All your vehicle has to do is look unsafe to the officer, and he can hit you with it. Squatting tires, sagging suspension, swerving, swaying, things hanging off... That's what they're looking for.

You can load your S10 with whatever you feel like. If you prop it up so it looks okay and you can drive it straight and keep up with traffic, nobody is going to bother you.

As far as answering your question about what is your weak link, you are not going to find that answer here. You've already done far more research than nearly everyone else here, and know more about your specific truck than nearly everyone else here.

The foremost authority to answer the question at this point is YOU. If you think you can do it, and you're willing to accept any liabilities ranging from breaking something on your truck to killing a busload of nuns and orphans, then do what you think is best.
blt2ski
Moderator
Aug 23, 2015
tsetsaf wrote:
Surprised no one mentioned gcwr. Not on the door sticker but in the OP example becomes very important.

gcwr is NOT a legal number, no more legal than door sticker. For the most part, only a warranty number, along with a performance number. IE how fast up a freeway grade in what gear, how steep an overall before literally stalling out in first gear. Stopping and holding with Ebrake are factors, but again, still a performance factor. Put larger brakes on TV or trailer, and you stop quicker, hold on a steep grade etc.

I've had rigs with lower gcwr's than another, only to have the lower rated one, go up a 20+% grade, come down and litterally pull the other one up the grade UNDER its gcwt! over double the gcwt of the one making it. The one not is under gcwr by 25%. Since that time around 1990, I do not trust gcwr figures to say a given rig will do what I need it do.

Marty
AH64ID
Explorer
Aug 23, 2015
mowermech wrote:
The OWNER of the truck can not change the sticker!

Not true either.

See the info I posted above about 49 CFR 567.7. The modifications do not have to be completed by anyone special, but note that the person doing the modifications is the one that is liable.
tsetsaf
Explorer III
Aug 23, 2015
Surprised no one mentioned gcwr. Not on the door sticker but in the OP example becomes very important.
mowermech
Explorer
Aug 23, 2015
donn0128 wrote:
Sadly the biggest thing you missed is the smallest thing on your vehicle. That is the sticker on the drivers door post. There is nothing you can do to alter that. Secondly is cost! Upgrades, or rather add ons can become very expensive and add exactly zero to the vehicles value, and some can actually reduce a vehicles value.

"There is nothing you can do to alter that."

Sorry, that just is not true. Well, perhaps, in a minor way, it is true. The OWNER of the truck can not change the sticker! However, there certainly ARE authorized upfitter shops in the United States that CAN install (some can even fabricats) new springs and print a new sticker for the vehicle. Such shops are all over the country. IIRC, there is one here in Billings, and one in Great Falls, and there are several in the Seattle/Tacoma area.
From a LEGAL standpoint, as others have pointed out, in many states a truck can be registered for nearly any weight the owner wishes to assign it, and it is then LEGAL for any w3eight under that. When I had the old 1994 Dodge 3500 CTD I had it registered for 14,000 GVW.
It seemed like a nice round number, and I knew I would never exceed it! I also put Load Range E tires on it, and a previous owner had installed HUGE overload springs on the rear axle.
Remember, the door sticker is just exactly that, a removable sticker! The numbers are not stamped into the steel.
AH64ID
Explorer
Aug 23, 2015
I recall it being an iron case vs a aluminum case for the front axle. The iron case wasn't exclusive to the ZR2 but it was on every ZR2.

There are honestly too many potential weak points on a compact pickup to push the limits.

The track width is wider but I believe it is still narrower than a 1/2 ton 10 bolt so there is non guarantee that the axle tubes are as strong, or the axle shafts, or the beatings. Most of that is easy to check.

It is the stuff you cannot check, or is difficult to check, that will be likely be the limiting factor. Spring-under suspension ratings, frame ratings, brakes, etc.
lawrosa
Explorer
Aug 22, 2015
The front is IFS is it not? The actual axle housing is not weight bearing. IIRC the S-10's use a 7.2" ring gear on the front.

I would also put the the rear spring-under suspension in a weak link category.

Yes your right..

I wonder what enhanced means... LOL..

Ladder-type Frame with modified mounting points
100mm wider track (3.9 inches wider than regular S-10)
Increased ground clearance (Approx 3" over Regular S-Series 4x4)
Enhanced front (7.25" ring gear) and rear (8.5" ring gear) axles w/ 3.73:1 rear-axle ratio
Larger wheel and axle bearings
31 x 10.50" BFG A/T Tires (Pickup), 31 x 10.50" BFG Longtrails (Blazer)
46mm gas pressurized Bilstein Monotube shocks
Rear track bar (pickup), front anti-sway bar (blazer)
Skid plates
Front/rear disc brakes (1998-2005), disc/drum brakes (1994-1997)
AH64ID
Explorer
Aug 22, 2015
lawrosa wrote:
Keep in mind the axle manufacturer's load rating on the 10.5" rear axle may not be the same load rating as a 10.5" front axle. If that's the direction your going here.
Also keep in mind brake ratings between the front and rear axle. They also can be different.

Yes but my front and rear are 8.5" and are the same ratngs and same axle..

The front is IFS is it not? The actual axle housing is not weight bearing. IIRC the S-10's use a 7.2" ring gear on the front.

I would also put the the rear spring-under suspension in a weak link category.
lawrosa
Explorer
Aug 22, 2015
Keep in mind the axle manufacturer's load rating on the 10.5" rear axle may not be the same load rating as a 10.5" front axle. If that's the direction your going here.
Also keep in mind brake ratings between the front and rear axle. They also can be different.

Yes but my front and rear are 8.5" and are the same ratngs and same axle..

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