Actual Payload of vehicles....

[lawrosa]

This thread was closed but I would like to put get some knowledge of actuals that may be of opinion or hard facts.

http://forums.woodalls.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28525924.cfm

Im logical and am not the smartest tool in the shed, but I have a big shed....LOL..

I will use my 1996 s10 rpo ZR2 as an example. Check these #'s to see where I am going with this in relation to the link above..

My truck per door tag

GVW 4900 lbs
Axle ratings 2700

Now facts about what I have.

GM 8.5" 10 bolt rear. This is a 3750 lb rear per GM. 3.73
Tires 31" LT 2270 lbs per tire @ 50 psi.. = 4540 lbs

My weakest link is my axles I assume.
My trucks rear from scales weighs in at 1800 lbs.

With that said 3750 lbs axles - 1800 lbs scale weight gives me a 1950 lbs payload.

So if I beef up my spring pack to reflect 1950 lbs, I assume this truck can handle that weight per facts and #'s. ( I am now assuming my leafs may be the weakest link)

How about some super springs?

Super springs

Just like the poster in the link above where others stated his axles can handle it but his tires were the weakest link.( And if he changed his tires,) That some saw no issue except maybe his COG..

Theoretically with out talking about my v6 engine that probably could not haul that weight without burning up, the #'s state at a suspension stand point my payload is 1950 lbs..

And at present time I tow that 4000 lb trailer in sig ( wet) with a 420 tongue. ( 340 with WD) Scale weight 2200 lbs on rear. Leaves me 500 lbs before I go over my door tag rating of 2700 lbs..

And I can tell you I would not want to tow anything heavier..

So what you all think? Am I missing something?

[lawrosa]

. If you think you can do it, and you're willing to accept any liabilities ranging from breaking something on your truck to killing a busload of nuns and orphans, then do what you think is best.

Thats funny... It made me chuckle..

I dont think I ever saw a bus full of nuns or orphans... he he

[mkirsch]

On a non-commercial vehicle, the only thing law enforcement is concerned with is how it LOOKS. If it looks like a road hazard, they will pull you over.

They have this very non-specific charge they can use at their discretion, called "unsafe vehicle." All your vehicle has to do is look unsafe to the officer, and he can hit you with it. Squatting tires, sagging suspension, swerving, swaying, things hanging off... That's what they're looking for.

You can load your S10 with whatever you feel like. If you prop it up so it looks okay and you can drive it straight and keep up with traffic, nobody is going to bother you.

As far as answering your question about what is your weak link, you are not going to find that answer here. You've already done far more research than nearly everyone else here, and know more about your specific truck than nearly everyone else here.

The foremost authority to answer the question at this point is YOU. If you think you can do it, and you're willing to accept any liabilities ranging from breaking something on your truck to killing a busload of nuns and orphans, then do what you think is best.

[blt2ski]

tsetsaf wrote:
Surprised no one mentioned gcwr. Not on the door sticker but in the OP example becomes very important.

gcwr is NOT a legal number, no more legal than door sticker. For the most part, only a warranty number, along with a performance number. IE how fast up a freeway grade in what gear, how steep an overall before literally stalling out in first gear. Stopping and holding with Ebrake are factors, but again, still a performance factor. Put larger brakes on TV or trailer, and you stop quicker, hold on a steep grade etc.

I've had rigs with lower gcwr's than another, only to have the lower rated one, go up a 20+% grade, come down and litterally pull the other one up the grade UNDER its gcwt! over double the gcwt of the one making it. The one not is under gcwr by 25%. Since that time around 1990, I do not trust gcwr figures to say a given rig will do what I need it do.


Marty

[AH64ID]

mowermech wrote:
The OWNER of the truck can not change the sticker!

Not true either.

See the info I posted above about 49 CFR 567.7. The modifications do not have to be completed by anyone special, but note that the person doing the modifications is the one that is liable.

[tsetsaf]

Surprised no one mentioned gcwr. Not on the door sticker but in the OP example becomes very important.

[mowermech]

donn0128 wrote:
Sadly the biggest thing you missed is the smallest thing on your vehicle. That is the sticker on the drivers door post. There is nothing you can do to alter that. Secondly is cost! Upgrades, or rather add ons can become very expensive and add exactly zero to the vehicles value, and some can actually reduce a vehicles value.

"There is nothing you can do to alter that."

Sorry, that just is not true. Well, perhaps, in a minor way, it is true. The OWNER of the truck can not change the sticker! However, there certainly ARE authorized upfitter shops in the United States that CAN install (some can even fabricats) new springs and print a new sticker for the vehicle. Such shops are all over the country. IIRC, there is one here in Billings, and one in Great Falls, and there are several in the Seattle/Tacoma area.
From a LEGAL standpoint, as others have pointed out, in many states a truck can be registered for nearly any weight the owner wishes to assign it, and it is then LEGAL for any w3eight under that. When I had the old 1994 Dodge 3500 CTD I had it registered for 14,000 GVW.
It seemed like a nice round number, and I knew I would never exceed it! I also put Load Range E tires on it, and a previous owner had installed HUGE overload springs on the rear axle.
Remember, the door sticker is just exactly that, a removable sticker! The numbers are not stamped into the steel.

[AH64ID]

I recall it being an iron case vs a aluminum case for the front axle. The iron case wasn't exclusive to the ZR2 but it was on every ZR2.

There are honestly too many potential weak points on a compact pickup to push the limits.

The track width is wider but I believe it is still narrower than a 1/2 ton 10 bolt so there is non guarantee that the axle tubes are as strong, or the axle shafts, or the beatings. Most of that is easy to check.

It is the stuff you cannot check, or is difficult to check, that will be likely be the limiting factor. Spring-under suspension ratings, frame ratings, brakes, etc.

[lawrosa]

The front is IFS is it not? The actual axle housing is not weight bearing. IIRC the S-10's use a 7.2" ring gear on the front.

I would also put the the rear spring-under suspension in a weak link category.

Yes your right..

I wonder what enhanced means... LOL..


Ladder-type Frame with modified mounting points
100mm wider track (3.9 inches wider than regular S-10)
Increased ground clearance (Approx 3" over Regular S-Series 4x4)
Enhanced front (7.25" ring gear) and rear (8.5" ring gear) axles w/ 3.73:1 rear-axle ratio
Larger wheel and axle bearings
31 x 10.50" BFG A/T Tires (Pickup), 31 x 10.50" BFG Longtrails (Blazer)
46mm gas pressurized Bilstein Monotube shocks
Rear track bar (pickup), front anti-sway bar (blazer)
Skid plates
Front/rear disc brakes (1998-2005), disc/drum brakes (1994-1997)

[AH64ID]

lawrosa wrote:

Keep in mind the axle manufacturer's load rating on the 10.5" rear axle may not be the same load rating as a 10.5" front axle. If that's the direction your going here.
Also keep in mind brake ratings between the front and rear axle. They also can be different.

Yes but my front and rear are 8.5" and are the same ratngs and same axle..

The front is IFS is it not? The actual axle housing is not weight bearing. IIRC the S-10's use a 7.2" ring gear on the front.

I would also put the the rear spring-under suspension in a weak link category.

[lawrosa]

Keep in mind the axle manufacturer's load rating on the 10.5" rear axle may not be the same load rating as a 10.5" front axle. If that's the direction your going here.
Also keep in mind brake ratings between the front and rear axle. They also can be different.

Yes but my front and rear are 8.5" and are the same ratngs and same axle..

[AH64ID]

I would suspect that on a S10 the weak link is the frame and front suspension but I am not sure in which order.

The other thing to consider is that it may be a 10 bolt center section but the axle tubes may not be the same.

[JIMNLIN]

op wrote:
As someone said my axles are weakest link..

Ill find the facts that the axle is rated 3750 and post...

And if the axles are indeed 3750lb thats 7500 lbs..

Keep in mind the axle manufacturer's load rating on the 10.5" rear axle may not be the same load rating as a 10.5" front axle. If that's the direction your going here.
Also keep in mind brake ratings between the front and rear axle. They also can be different.

[lawrosa]

The GM 8-1/2" 10 bolt rear axle first appeared in vans 1976, however it did not come into widespread use in GM trucks until 1979-1981 when it replaced the 8-7/8" truck axle. From 1982-1987, this 10 bolt axle was used by all the GM 1/2 ton truck models. From 1988 on, the 8-1/2" axle has continued to be used for 1/2 ton class vehicles, plus some 3/4 ton vans. When AAM acquired the GM axle manufacturing assets, the 8-1/2" was renamed the AAM 860 8.6" 10 bolt rear axle.

FYI I had an 88 k20 3/4 chevey pickup and it had the 14 bolt 6 lug 8.5" and was rated at 5200 I think..( GVW was 8600 I think) It was a long time ago...

And as I said its crazy my RPO zr2 has 2270 lt tires. Thats 9080 lbs at 50 psi.

And if the axles are indeed 3750lb thats 7500 lbs..


As someone said my axles are weakest link..

I still think if I beef the leafs I can have a hauler.... But need to dump V8 in there...lol

From yeaterdaystractors .com

I know most all axles will carry much more then the published load-capacity. I assume they won't last as long when overloaded, but I know many work fine.

I'd just like to see the specs.

My GM 10 bolt rear 8.5" has axle bearings that measure: Inside diameter=1.6180"; Outside diameter=2.5778"; Width=1.303"

My GM 14 bolf SF 9.5" rear has axle bearings that measure: Inside diameter=1.7080"; Width=1.320"; Outside diameter=3.0880"

That's a pretty substantial difference. The 10 bolt is rated 4,000 lbs. so it seems the 12 bolt must be 5000-6000 lbs.

Ill find the facts that the axle is rated 3750 and post...

[blt2ski]

Reality is, ratings have some science to them, along with how much warrenty the manufacture wants to get consumed by. There are items out there with one time uses.....Others have multiple uses. A one time use item is usually smaller, will break or bend easier than a multiple use item.....

Hence why Ben probably uses the "do you believe or not" comment a lot! Or items have multiple ratings. Chain for example, a lift rating, or pull rating. Pull is many times 2-3 times the amount of the lift. My bobcat for example, the lift rating is half of the tip load, ie where the back wheels lift off the ground. I can push more than tip load, which I do with pallet forks at times. Full well knowing I can not lift the load per say. Safe?!?!? I'll let you decide.

Legal, as noted by someone in Virginia... he has 8K paid for registration, that is what he is legal to. 7200 lbs gvwr door sticker be danged. Washington where I am, is very very similar. My C2500 has an 8K paid for registration, as does my sons toyota tacoma, and other sons K1500 reg cab pickup. Door stickers of 6200-700o or soo be danged for sons rigs. My 8600 also be danged. If pulled over between 8001 and 8600, I am illegal thank you very much.
My IHC mdt dumptruck, has a door sticker of 18200, sits inside my owners manual on office book shelf. I have a paid for license of 26K. Been thru state weigh scales upwards of mid 25K, never been ticketed for being over weight. Even got pulled over at 27xxx lbs.....no ticket, a 10 day warning to up paid for license to 28K. As I was under the max axel load for tire width so I was not over the road bed engineer ratings. THAT is what the LEO/CVEO is supposed to ticket you on, assuming you have enough paid for registration.
As one CVEO told me in a class I took about what I have to register my trucks for. I could license a Toyota tacoma or equal for 100K lbs, drive 100 miles down the road, truck is destroyed, haul it to junk yard, nothing they can do IF I follow ALL other laws from braking to min speeds etc. This would be in this instance, a one time 100 mile use tool! Many of you may not agree, but it is what it is!

Reality is, how long do you want something to last, before breaking etc.

Rig in question of OP's, probably could be legal rated paid for to around 20K gvw. Issue will be, if it can stop in 25' or so from 15 or 20 mph, or what ever spec and LEO uses in the field to see if your brakes function or not. Pass field test, your legal. Fail.... well, you get a ticket, vehicle does not move on road until you pass test, or haul it to shop on a vehicle that can carry the load legally etc.

Also, from a changing door sticker gvwr etc. Usually easier to do if you started with a cab and chassis model, put the bed on aftermarket. A pickup while it can be done, it was assembled at the factory complete, and most aftermarket body manufactures etc will not put there insurance on the line for these additions. There are a few that will, but many will not. Kind of like the two places that put aftermarket front drive units on Vans, they will usually only do NEW unregistered vans, not used ones.

Good luck on what you are doing.

marty