CC&R dated 1973 says no RVs, trailers, boats can be stored

[kmb1966]

I am looking to purchase a home and found one that has a nice driveway on the side of the home with gates. My original plan was to park my Newmar Dutchstar motorhome on the driveway behind the gates. It fits.
However, the neighbor across the street who has a 2-story house says she would be able to see the RV from her upstairs window. She hasn't mentioned the CC&Rs, but I have a copy. The CC&R does state that there are to be no RVs, trailers, boats or similar item stored on the property. That's all it says. These CC&R's are dated 1973, and there is no active HOA anymore, but the CC&R's apparently still apply because they auto renew somehow. My issue here is that the CC&R's are old, and provide no definition for 'storage' or how long is acceptable. I suppose I will consult an attorney on this issue. It seems unfair to enforce a 40+ rule without any ability to re-vote or modernize or clarify any of the rules since there is no active HOA. Furthermore there is no way to vote for the continuance of the auto renew of the CC&R. Without any HOA, there is no way to even vote to change or consider any changes to these 1970 CC&Rs. It would seem reasonable in these modern times with so many having RV's that if the property has a driveway where the RV can be stored behind the fence/gate and cannot be seen from the street, that it should be acceptable. The fact that the lady can see the RV if she goes upstairs and looks out the window seems silly. Thoughts?
ON EDIT: I have observed 5 other houses in the neighborhood with boats, RV's, and trailers in the driveway not even behind the privacy gate/fence.

[Mike134]

kmb1966 wrote:
Hello, I am the original poster: I have an appointment to speak with a local attorney regarding this subject, so I will try to report back.

Did you go? Curious what he/she said.
This keyboard lawyering is tough, need to move my keyboard expertise on to something new. Last year it was Constitutional law, then later Infectious disease expert, not sure what 2021 holds.

Cheers

[ArcticGabe]

ItsyRV wrote:

kmb1966 wrote:
After speaking with the code enforcement division, and the city planner, there is no CITY code I would be violating at this particular residence, parking the dutchstar the way I have indicated, which is, on the concrete pad that is to the left of the house along the side of the property and behind the gate.

You're confusing two issues. Most municipalities do not enforce CC&R's. What you need from local codes isn't about enforcement but the definition of "parking" and "storage". Like AZ, NM also uses the "common meaning as defined by local authority". Even if the city or county has no rules on the RV, their definition of parking and storage would apply to the CC&Rs absent any specific wording in the CC&Rs.

kmb1966 wrote:
The 1973 CC&R document has not been updated since 1975 and indicates that it lasts 20 years. In which at that time "Auto renews" for 10 year successions unless there is a vote by the land owners to discontinue the CC&Rs or a portion of it. So, by that definition, the CC&R's are still valid, but there is no forum held to discuss the continuance or discontinuance of the rules or any part of the rules.

You're again confusing two issues. The CC&R are valid and enforceable per NMS Chapter 47. Absent any wording in the CC&R as to the abolishing or amending the CC&R, it resorts to the property owners to obtain a court acceptable agreement to eliminate or change the CC&R. Just because it's not written in the CC&R doesn't mean they can't be enforced through a private lawsuits. Any property owner can sue any other property owner for violating the CC&R. Based on NM case law, unless the the violation is against good public order, the courts generally uphold the CC&Rs.

kmb1966 wrote:
You can't change the rules because there is no forum held to update/change/delete any of the rules, so they just kinda go on and on.

Yes you can. NM Statutes say you have to obtain an agreement by the majority of property owners to change the CC&R if there is nothing in the document establishing a formal mechanism. A property owner opposed to the change can sue you and it would require a Judge to review the agreement and if the majority agreed to the change, it's changed. The process and procedures is a bit sketchy but there is ample cases in NM on this and your lawyer should be able to walk you through the process.

If there have been repeated, continuous and open violations with no enfacement, it appears that will go greatly in your favor if you sue to abolish or are sued to enforce the restriction. The easiest seems to come down to someone writing a formal document that the the majority agrees on and it survives any opposing court challenge.

I was just getting ready to type up a lengthly reply with much of this same info, but Itsy beat me to it and saved me some typing (thanks, Itsy!)

How do I know? I just went through all of this myself. Each property owner has the right to enforce CC&Rs or deed restrictions. Just because there are a couple examples of violations, just means that those violations do not bother anyone enough to bring a suit against them. But if you violate across the street from someone who is particularly bothered by your violation, there is nothing stopping them from suing you. Now if there are many violations throughout the neighborhood, you can use that in your defense, and it will be up to the judge to determine if all of the existing violations suitably outweigh your neighbor's right to enforce the rules.

Basically, fighting against this by a blatant violation and "seeing what happens" is risky. I'd think you'd be better off getting the required number of signatures to change or dissolve the CC&Rs. Or go move elsewhere.

Best of luck to you, though. I do feel your pain.

[ItsyRV]

kmb1966 wrote:
After speaking with the code enforcement division, and the city planner, there is no CITY code I would be violating at this particular residence, parking the dutchstar the way I have indicated, which is, on the concrete pad that is to the left of the house along the side of the property and behind the gate.

You're confusing two issues. Most municipalities do not enforce CC&R's. What you need from local codes isn't about enforcement but the definition of "parking" and "storage". Like AZ, NM also uses the "common meaning as defined by local authority". Even if the city or county has no rules on the RV, their definition of parking and storage would apply to the CC&Rs absent any specific wording in the CC&Rs.

kmb1966 wrote:
The 1973 CC&R document has not been updated since 1975 and indicates that it lasts 20 years. In which at that time "Auto renews" for 10 year successions unless there is a vote by the land owners to discontinue the CC&Rs or a portion of it. So, by that definition, the CC&R's are still valid, but there is no forum held to discuss the continuance or discontinuance of the rules or any part of the rules.

You're again confusing two issues. The CC&R are valid and enforceable per NMS Chapter 47. Absent any wording in the CC&R as to the abolishing or amending the CC&R, it resorts to the property owners to obtain a court acceptable agreement to eliminate or change the CC&R. Just because it's not written in the CC&R doesn't mean they can't be enforced through a private lawsuits. Any property owner can sue any other property owner for violating the CC&R. Based on NM case law, unless the the violation is against good public order, the courts generally uphold the CC&Rs.

kmb1966 wrote:
You can't change the rules because there is no forum held to update/change/delete any of the rules, so they just kinda go on and on.

Yes you can. NM Statutes say you have to obtain an agreement by the majority of property owners to change the CC&R if there is nothing in the document establishing a formal mechanism. A property owner opposed to the change can sue you and it would require a Judge to review the agreement and if the majority agreed to the change, it's changed. The process and procedures is a bit sketchy but there is ample cases in NM on this and your lawyer should be able to walk you through the process.

If there have been repeated, continuous and open violations with no enfacement, it appears that will go greatly in your favor if you sue to abolish or are sued to enforce the restriction. The easiest seems to come down to someone writing a formal document that the the majority agrees on and it survives any opposing court challenge.

[Timmo_]

What do you call rules--that cannot be enforced?

Guidelines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GMkuPiIZ2k

[2112]

kmb1966 wrote:
In the meantime, I will continue to be nice to the lady and maybe bring her some Louisiana Boudin, and maybe she will forget about it all! :h

A muffaletta from Pronia`s Deli would work

[Grit_dog]

free radical wrote:

Its usualy lonely unhappy people jelly o others lifestyle who try to make others miserable too.

You should invite her over and show her how nice your MH is inside and what rv life is about.
Giving her a box of chocolates would be good idea too,make friends

city build bridge around house

Or a box of ExLax disguised as chocolates!

[PA12DRVR]

Suggest you confirm that the restrictions are CCR's and not deed restrictions...just for grins. Someone will have to sue you to enforce the "rules" and deed restrictions just means it's a different someone.

CCR's don't age out unless there are sunset provisions in them or there is a statutory provision. IDK what the law is in NM, but would guess the CCR's are still valid. What that does is give your fellow owners a cause of action against you...it's not an instant summary judgment issue (what is "storage" anyway?) but it let's them walk in and have count 1 in their complaint.

Consult with the local attorney, but it still sounds like a headache that one doesn't need, even if in practical terms, the likelihood of suit is pretty low.

[free_radical]

kmb1966 wrote:

bukhrn wrote:
Have you tried to contact the 5 other houses with RV's, boat, etc, and asked them how they get away with it and what if any problems have they had, or is it just your neighbor with an attitude.

Good question. Yes, I have spoken with a few of them. They said that no one has ever complained. However, I am the one that lives directly across the street from the lady that says she doesn't want to look at my RV even if it is behind the fence.

Its usualy lonely unhappy people jelly o others lifestyle who try to make others miserable too.

You should invite her over and show her how nice your MH is inside and what rv life is about.
Giving her a box of chocolates would be good idea too,make friends not enemies.

Funny vid
What hapens when house owner refuse to move

city build bridge around house

[Tal_IL]

Some years ago, a sportsman's club I am a director of lost the lease on our club property after the death of the owner. We found another piece of property and invested significant time and money in securing an option to buy, contingent on receiving a required zoning variance. We anticipated no issues with the zoning.

Someone who had previously tried to buy the property was pissed that we got the deal done. He organized several "neighbors", all of whom lived more than a mile away from the property to object to our variance. Their objections were ridiculous and I prepared a presentation showing them to be baseless. Our attorney said he had no doubt we would prevail and get the variance. However, he also said that these people would not go away. He expected we would forever be dealing with baseless complaints and possibly frivolous lawsuits.

We cut a deal and found another location.

[Grit_dog]

Mike134 wrote:
If it's a covenant recorded with the title she can file a suit against you. Question will be who has deeper pockets to litigate it?

Oh my ____!
OR, maybe, just maybe, the worst possible scenario is that the OP "might" have to store his RV off-site, IF ANY of this doom n gloom HOA apocalypse stuff actually comes to fruition!

You all crack me up. I would hate going through life as pessimistic and scared of what "might" happen, regardless of how remote the probability, as some folks do!

[Mike134]

If it's a covenant recorded with the title she can file a suit against you. Question will be who has deeper pockets to litigate it?

[Bumpyroad]

reads to me like the CC&Rs are in effect and will be until a majority of the land owners vote to eliminate/modify them.
bumpy

[kmb1966]

Hello, I am the original poster: My profile says Louisiana, but we have recently moved to New Mexico. I spoke with the city code enforcement today. They said that they do not enforce CC&Rs and would not be involved as long as there is no city code being violated. After speaking with the code enforcement division, and the city planner, there is no CITY code I would be violating at this particular residence, parking the dutchstar the way I have indicated, which is, on the concrete pad that is to the left of the house along the side of the property and behind the gate. The 1973 CC&R document has not been updated since 1975 and indicates that it lasts 20 years. In which at that time "Auto renews" for 10 year successions unless there is a vote by the land owners to discontinue the CC&Rs or a portion of it. So, by that definition, the CC&R's are still valid, but there is no forum held to discuss the continuance or discontinuance of the rules or any part of the rules. Because of that, I think it might be more difficult to enforce in court. You can't change the rules because there is no forum held to update/change/delete any of the rules, so they just kinda go on and on. I have an appointment to speak with a local attorney regarding this subject, so I will try to report back. In the meantime, I will continue to be nice to the lady and maybe bring her some Louisiana Boudin, and maybe she will forget about it all! :h

[Grit_dog]

Ed_Gee wrote:
Given the additional info the OP has posted, it sounds like everyone is making a mountain out of a mole hill. The lady merely indicated she would wishes she didn't have to see it when upstairs .... nothing else, apparently. I live in an exact same situation as the OP is looking at... a neighborhood in which the developer created CC&Rs that everyone had to sign off on when buying. Fortunately, no HOA was ever created.... and thus, many people in the neighborhood have violated those CC&Rs ... boats, RVs, ham radio antennas, even the color of the houses. There is no enforcement, and never will be. If an individual in the neighborhood wants to create a fuss over something, he would have to hire a lawyer ... and no guarantees there, too. I suspect if the OP is nice to his neighbor across the street she'll get used to it.

This isn't the real world here on rvnet though. Half the people responding probably are their neighborhood Kravitz's. Others care far too much what their neighbors think and the OP hasn't even determined if the CC&Rs are enforceable or even in effect any longer.

And then there's the "better than you" crowd here. "Well I live in the country on acreage....etc etc"
But that doesn't make the OP wrong for wanting to be in a subdivision....for whatever reason.

Until you know there's an issue, don't make it an issue...
Once you've verified, then take action. Either way.

[hotbyte]

Glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this...cause it would be all over my computer screen!

dodge guy wrote:
I would never knowingly buy a house across the street with Miss Kravitz living there!