CC&R dated 1973 says no RVs, trailers, boats can be stored

[kmb1966]

I am looking to purchase a home and found one that has a nice driveway on the side of the home with gates. My original plan was to park my Newmar Dutchstar motorhome on the driveway behind the gates. It fits.
However, the neighbor across the street who has a 2-story house says she would be able to see the RV from her upstairs window. She hasn't mentioned the CC&Rs, but I have a copy. The CC&R does state that there are to be no RVs, trailers, boats or similar item stored on the property. That's all it says. These CC&R's are dated 1973, and there is no active HOA anymore, but the CC&R's apparently still apply because they auto renew somehow. My issue here is that the CC&R's are old, and provide no definition for 'storage' or how long is acceptable. I suppose I will consult an attorney on this issue. It seems unfair to enforce a 40+ rule without any ability to re-vote or modernize or clarify any of the rules since there is no active HOA. Furthermore there is no way to vote for the continuance of the auto renew of the CC&R. Without any HOA, there is no way to even vote to change or consider any changes to these 1970 CC&Rs. It would seem reasonable in these modern times with so many having RV's that if the property has a driveway where the RV can be stored behind the fence/gate and cannot be seen from the street, that it should be acceptable. The fact that the lady can see the RV if she goes upstairs and looks out the window seems silly. Thoughts?
ON EDIT: I have observed 5 other houses in the neighborhood with boats, RV's, and trailers in the driveway not even behind the privacy gate/fence.

[bukhrn]

Have you tried to contact the 5 other houses with RV's, boat, etc, and asked them how they get away with it and what if any problems have they had, or is it just your neighbor with an attitude.

[BB_TX]

As to whether the CC&R are enforceable, you are not going to get the answer here. You will have to go to the city and find out who and if any enforcement can and will be done.

[Gdetrailer]

schlep1967 wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

schlep1967 wrote:
My question would be, "If there is no HOA, who is she going to complain to?"
And who is going to enforce it?

The "neighbor" that the OP contacted WILL obviously "enforce" the "rules". That basically means that "neighbor" will be a real pain to the OP and I would bet that the OP will have many local Police "visits" in their future.. Even if they have no "legal" means, they most likely will be finding all kinds of things to complain to the Police about even if it doesn't "stick" (too loud of music, too big of a party, ect).

No one is twisting the OPs arm to buy the property, right now they (the OP) HAVE a choice in the matter, once they buy the property the NEIGHBOR has made it clear that THEY (the neighbor)are in charge of the neighborhood..

Bad neighbors are permanent, they never leave, they never go away, OP knows upfront they have at least one bad neighbor.

Lots of properties out there that have no restrictions, may require searching a different area further away.

And after about the 3rd baseless call when the Police show up, a request to file harassment charges against the neighbor will put it all to rest.

I agree, I would never live in any development. Especially one with an HOA. But if the property fits the needs, don't let one rotten apple spoil your piece of the apple pie.

P.S. Bad neighbors can be found outside of developments also.

Sure, you as the NEWBEE can "play that game" but in reality, if you have a choice upfront, WHY would you put yourself into that spot?

That is dumb to know upfront and then spend your nickles on a property with a KNOWN hassler.

You act like there is no other properties in this world and must have THIS ON..

And yes, you can find rotten apples outside of developments but outside of developments you have more freedom to take care of those bad apples like privacy fences, privacy tree rows or just sheer acreage..

Often time hunting for places outside of developments allows for lower prices upfront, far more privacy, far more lot size..

It is why I chose a property way out in a lesser dense rural location, got the property cheap, have some acreage, zoned agricultural which means I can not only live on the property but I am not restricted in things either.. So, I can have my 26ft TT, my 18ft utility trailer, outside vehicle parking, multiple junk yard dogs barking 24/7, derelict broken down antique vehicles, broken lawnmowers, let the grass grow until it hides the neighbors house and even step out on the back porch and take a wiz and never have any hassles with my neighbors calling the police once.

Sure, I do have to deal with my neighbor across the street with some of their "yard art" and lack of mowing grass (they mowed twice last summer and that was a record for them).. But, at least no one can tell me what I can or can not park in my driveway or yard.. I don't have folks telling me that my grass is too high or they don't like the color of the window treatments on my windows.

I don't subscribe to the idea that one is locked into buying into a neighborhood because of a shortage of homes or land in less dense places.. You just have to open up your search area farther away from your "targeted" high density areas.

Yes, that may mean you will have a 20-30 minute drive to all of the malls, it may mean you are out of all of the big city stuff but so be it if it brings you PEACE while you are at your home every night.

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

Don't buy there.

Not worth the costs. And it will be expensive to try to get things changed.

If you win, you will have neighbors who dislike you and feel you have harmed them.

[bukhrn]

04fxsts wrote:
No way would I buy there. Jim.

X-2 or whatever

[Grit_dog]

Or, after 3 pages of "don't buy the house" responses, research if the CC&Rs are still in effect (regardless of the ability to enforce them with no HOA). And make sure, if expired, that the CC&Rs or this particular restriction is not part of the zoning law.

I wouldn't tank the right deal on the right house until I knew there was an issue. You can get a nosy neighbor anywhere. One could move in the day after you do...

[Scottiemom]

coolmom42 wrote:
My subdivision has subdivision covenants regarding materials of construction, setbacks, outbuildings, mobile homes etc. It does not and has never had a HOA. The covenants were put in place by the subdivision developer and are part of the deed. So the existence of a HOA is not a requirement for restrictions.

One of my neighbors wanted to build a smaller house than the restriction (by only a couple of hundred square feet.) They made a petition and got X number of property owners in the subdivision to sign it. I don't know what entity approved the petition, nor what number of % of homeowners had to sign it. They had to have it processed before the building permit.

I'm sure laws about this sort of thing are highly variable. My advice is to talk to an attorney, and/or the codes enforcement entity. If you do have such a petition, go around to the people with the stuff in their driveways, and their neighbors, and get it signed first.

That neighbor sounds like a PITA and I would not care to live across the street from her.

You are correct about these covenants being instituted at times by the developer and no HOA. Same as in the subdivision where we once had property. I was told if you do something against the covenants and no one complains, you're "probably" okay. But the minute someone complains and can site the covenants, etc. . . different balllgame.

And it doesn't matter how old they are. The original developer had his reasons.

Dale

[wapiticountry]

Are you sure it is just a CC&R and also not a deed restriction? If it is a deed restriction the city or county can and will get involved.
You also have to take into account the lady you are worried about has lived there and you are a newcomer. You have no idea what influence she may or may not have over the other neighbors. She may be viewed as a pest or she may have just been chosen by the entire neighborhood to voice their concerns. Someone mentioned most people won't go thru the time and expense to actually try and enforce those covenants, but you have no idea if someone in the neighborhood chases ambulances for a living and would like nothing better than to spread a little of their special joy your way.

[Bumpyroad]

The CC&R does state that there are to be no RVs, trailers, boats or similar item stored on the property.

what part of that is hard to understand? evidently it doesn't say that RVs etc. must be unseen behind a fence,etc. but she is preparing to discredit that argument already. if nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy it, run away from the deal to avoid many years of misery.

bumpy
P.S. reminds me of an old joke where a woman complained to the police that her neighbor walked around his house naked. the police came out and pointed out that if he was naked no body parts were visible. her comment, "well if I move that chair over there and stand on it ..........."

[schlep1967]

Gdetrailer wrote:

schlep1967 wrote:
My question would be, "If there is no HOA, who is she going to complain to?"
And who is going to enforce it?

The "neighbor" that the OP contacted WILL obviously "enforce" the "rules". That basically means that "neighbor" will be a real pain to the OP and I would bet that the OP will have many local Police "visits" in their future.. Even if they have no "legal" means, they most likely will be finding all kinds of things to complain to the Police about even if it doesn't "stick" (too loud of music, too big of a party, ect).

No one is twisting the OPs arm to buy the property, right now they (the OP) HAVE a choice in the matter, once they buy the property the NEIGHBOR has made it clear that THEY (the neighbor)are in charge of the neighborhood..

Bad neighbors are permanent, they never leave, they never go away, OP knows upfront they have at least one bad neighbor.

Lots of properties out there that have no restrictions, may require searching a different area further away.

And after about the 3rd baseless call when the Police show up, a request to file harassment charges against the neighbor will put it all to rest.

I agree, I would never live in any development. Especially one with an HOA. But if the property fits the needs, don't let one rotten apple spoil your piece of the apple pie.

P.S. Bad neighbors can be found outside of developments also.

[gkainz]

Any restrictions on the height of fence you could build between this property and Gladys Kravitz neighbor?

[Gdetrailer]

schlep1967 wrote:
My question would be, "If there is no HOA, who is she going to complain to?"
And who is going to enforce it?

The "neighbor" that the OP contacted WILL obviously "enforce" the "rules". That basically means that "neighbor" will be a real pain to the OP and I would bet that the OP will have many local Police "visits" in their future.. Even if they have no "legal" means, they most likely will be finding all kinds of things to complain to the Police about even if it doesn't "stick" (too loud of music, too big of a party, ect).

No one is twisting the OPs arm to buy the property, right now they (the OP) HAVE a choice in the matter, once they buy the property the NEIGHBOR has made it clear that THEY (the neighbor)are in charge of the neighborhood..

Bad neighbors are permanent, they never leave, they never go away, OP knows upfront they have at least one bad neighbor.

Lots of properties out there that have no restrictions, may require searching a different area further away.

[Tyler0215]

She has already proven to be a nosy, bad neighbor. If it is not your MH she's complaining about it will be something else. Be glad you found that out before you bought. Move on.

[Gdetrailer]

valhalla360 wrote:
If you want to right the worlds wrongs at great expense and aggravation, buy the house.

If you just want a nice house where you can park your MH in the drive, go elsewhere.

X2!

No truer words have been said!

There ARE plenty of "nice homes" in the entire world that do not have restrictions (in the past, present or future), those are what you want if you want "peace" in your part of the world.

Move on, find a nicer place without the hassles.

[NRALIFR]

With no HOA collecting dues to pay for an attorney, it will be up to an individual or a group of individuals with legal standing to bring an action against you. It’s been my experience that when it comes time to cough up money for retainers and other up-front costs, 99% of the complaining neighbors will run for the hills and hope somebody else steps up and defends their interests. Even the ones that will initially sign on and contribute money to get the process started will start bailing out as the costs and risks to their wealth and savings mount. I wish it wasn’t that way, but having been in the position of fighting a zoning violation that directly affected dozens of homeowners, and then having to proceed with just TWO neighbors to share the costs, that is my opinion of how things like that are going to go.

Neighborhood covenants and restrictions are only good if they are being enforced. No municipality has a Department of Neighborhood Covenant Enforcement. If they aren’t being enforced, and haven’t been for decades, they aren’t worth squat. Local zoning laws and ordinances are what will be enforced by your local City/County Code Enforcement department.

:):)