complaints when using a hughes autoformer

[dockmasterdave]

I am looking at a used hughes autoformer. I know some parks rules say they are not allowed.
Some parks we have been in, I have seen voltage at @ 102 to 104 with my a/c on.
I would be using a PI 3o amp surge protector in front of a hughes autoformer then the rv cord.
I just wondered if anyone has gotten in trouble for using their autoformer ?

[SoundGuy]

Dutch_12078 wrote:
In 75 years of camping/RV'ing, I've never had an appliance failure that I could attribute to low voltage. Maybe I'm just choosing the right places to stay. Or lucky...

Lucky for sure. 😉 My EMS disconnects power several times each season, not only while camping but also with the trailer plugged in here at the house. I'd never, ever plug in again without the benefit of having an EMS protect the trailer. And yes, before I started using an EMS I did lose a microwave oven - one day it worked, the next day it didn't. :M

[Dutch_12078]

valhalla360 wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:
I have a SurgeGuard 35550 installed in my coach:

"Product description"

"This 50 amp Surge Guard product monitors shore power continuously and shuts off when it detects power surges, open ground, open neutral, low or excessive voltage, miswired pedestals, reverse polarity, or elevated neutral current conditions that could damage electronic equipment in your coach. Like its 30 amp partner, the 50 amp hardwire unit is permanently installed within the bay of your coach, preventing potential theft and damage from the elements. Optional Remote LCD Display conveniently and remotely monitors RV electrical power."

You do realize, your surgeguard will happily keep you powered down to 102V. That's well below what I'm comfortable with.

I also have an installed voltmeter where it's easily seen, and have never seen a voltage low enough to cause me any concern even at peak usage hours. I do recall seeing a brief 108 reading at a small campground some years ago, but that's the lowest I've seen in the last 15-20 years. In 75 years of camping/RV'ing, I've never had an appliance failure that I could attribute to low voltage. Maybe I'm just choosing the right places to stay. Or lucky...

[SoundGuy]

Dutch_12078 wrote:
I have a SurgeGuard 35550 installed in my coach:

"This 50 amp Surge Guard product monitors shore power continuously and shuts off when it detects power surges, open ground, open neutral, low or excessive voltage, miswired pedestals, reverse polarity, or elevated neutral current conditions that could damage electronic equipment in your coach."

valhalla360 wrote:
You do realize, your surgeguard will happily keep you powered down to 102V. That's well below what I'm comfortable with.

And you do realize all TRC Surge Guard EMS units have always used 102 vac as the low voltage disconnect threshold? :W Clearly those who designed these units are comfortable with this value, just as Progressive designers are obviously comfortable with having chosen 104 vac as their low voltage disconnect threshold. 😉 Since I'm not a design engineer I am personally comfortable with those who are having made this decision for me. 😉

[SoundGuy]

Lantley wrote:
Unfortunately I don't know of a simple way to create low voltage scenario in order that you may test your surge to verify it work properly.

time2roll wrote:
Variable transformer $55

Wish I could buy a Variac here in Canada for a price like that!

I notice a 30 amp version is also available ... for those of us who already own an EMS with low / high voltage disconnect I wonder if this 30 amp model couldn't be used in conjunction with the EMS to ensure adequate voltage supply to the trailer. I notice it's continuous rating is 25 amps but that's plenty for me.

[valhalla360]

Dutch_12078 wrote:
I have a SurgeGuard 35550 installed in my coach:

"Product description"

"This 50 amp Surge Guard product monitors shore power continuously and shuts off when it detects power surges, open ground, open neutral, low or excessive voltage, miswired pedestals, reverse polarity, or elevated neutral current conditions that could damage electronic equipment in your coach. Like its 30 amp partner, the 50 amp hardwire unit is permanently installed within the bay of your coach, preventing potential theft and damage from the elements. Optional Remote LCD Display conveniently and remotely monitors RV electrical power."

You do realize, your surgeguard will happily keep you powered down to 102V. That's well below what I'm comfortable with.

[time2roll]

Lantley wrote:
Unfortunately I don't know of a simple way to create low voltage scenario in order that you may test your surge to verify it work properly.

Variable transformer $55

Or you could string a few extension cords together. Be safe.

[Lantley]

Maybe your fortunate enough to only camp in parks with decent electric or maybe I'm choosing questionable places...LOL.
But my surge has tracked a few low voltage scenarios over the 5 years I have had it.
Unfortunately I don't know of a simple way to create low voltage scenario in order that you may test your surge to verify it work properly.

[Dutch_12078]

Lantley wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:

My Surge Guard has never tripped off for low voltage.

Does your surge guard have a low voltage feature? They are not all created equal!
My Progressive EMSalets me to something 2 or 3 times a year. I am not a full timer.
There are electrical problems out there. I imagine most of us with autoformers eventually purchased them after experiencing low voltage sites first hand.
In time you realize these low voltage sites are lurking and in many cases the CG's are reluctant to address the issue.
Autoformers allow individual campers to protect their own equipment from low voltage damage.

I have a SurgeGuard 35550 installed in my coach:

"Product description"

"This 50 amp Surge Guard product monitors shore power continuously and shuts off when it detects power surges, open ground, open neutral, low or excessive voltage, miswired pedestals, reverse polarity, or elevated neutral current conditions that could damage electronic equipment in your coach. Like its 30 amp partner, the 50 amp hardwire unit is permanently installed within the bay of your coach, preventing potential theft and damage from the elements. Optional Remote LCD Display conveniently and remotely monitors RV electrical power."

[Lantley]

Dutch_12078 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:
I don't use an autoformer, nor have I run across a park to date where I needed one, but in those that prohibit them in their rules, I've found the predominate reasons are that they believe the devices somehow "steal" power, although I've never found a park manager or owner that could logically explain how that happens. The other reason has been possible liability insurance issues because the NEC prohibits the use of auto(trans)formers in RV's, which it does. I have inquired of the NFPA what the reasoning is behind the prohibition a couple of times, but I've never gotten a response.

First question: How do you know you haven't needed one? Unless you have a voltage meter that you monitor, you may well have had 104v power and were slowly cooking the air/con compressor but it may not fail until months later at another park with good power.

We didn't pick up an autoformer until we had low voltage kill and air/con unit. Then we started monitoring and found it surprisingly common to have low voltage on hot days.

My Surge Guard has never tripped off for low voltage.

Does your surge guard have a low voltage feature? They are not all created equal!
My Progressive EMSalets me to something 2 or 3 times a year. I am not a full timer.
There are electrical problems out there. I imagine most of us with autoformers eventually purchased them after experiencing low voltage sites first hand.
In time you realize these low voltage sites are lurking and in many cases the CG's are reluctant to address the issue.
Autoformers allow individual campers to protect their own equipment from low voltage damage.

[Lynnmor]

Dutch_12078 wrote:

My Surge Guard has never tripped off for low voltage.

Maybe not, but 116 volts is much better than 105, or whatever your low point might be.

[Dutch_12078]

valhalla360 wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:
I don't use an autoformer, nor have I run across a park to date where I needed one, but in those that prohibit them in their rules, I've found the predominate reasons are that they believe the devices somehow "steal" power, although I've never found a park manager or owner that could logically explain how that happens. The other reason has been possible liability insurance issues because the NEC prohibits the use of auto(trans)formers in RV's, which it does. I have inquired of the NFPA what the reasoning is behind the prohibition a couple of times, but I've never gotten a response.

First question: How do you know you haven't needed one? Unless you have a voltage meter that you monitor, you may well have had 104v power and were slowly cooking the air/con compressor but it may not fail until months later at another park with good power.

We didn't pick up an autoformer until we had low voltage kill and air/con unit. Then we started monitoring and found it surprisingly common to have low voltage on hot days.

My Surge Guard has never tripped off for low voltage.

[Cummins12V98]

Thousand trails in Palm Springs, CA were idiots a few years ago saying they would cause problems so they were forbidden. I just installed mine inside my compartment with my cord reel out of sight!!!

[SoundGuy]

Lantley wrote:
This weekend I had my autoformer in use however no one else seemed concerned about the low voltage. Without an EMS or at least a meter I imagine they were not aware the low voltage condition existed. As the saying goes "Ignorance is bliss"

Lynnmor wrote:
I decided on an autoformer purchase after being in a campground as the Friday night crowd rolled in. They start up the AC's and water heater's all within a short period of time and the voltage dipped to 99. When I walked about the campground, I asked a few if they knew that the voltage was low, only to be met with stupid looks and the "never had a problem" answers.

Sadly, par for the course. :R

[Lynnmor]

Lantley wrote:
valhalla360 wrote:
"First question: How do you know you haven't needed one? Unless you have a voltage meter that you monitor, you may well have had 104v power and were slowly cooking the air/con compressor but it may not fail until months later at another park with good power"

This weekend I had my autoformer in use however no one else seemed concerned about the low voltage. Without an EMS or at least a meter I imagine they were not aware the low voltage condition existed.
As the saying goes "Ignorance is bliss"

I decided on an autoformer purchase after being in a campground as the Friday night crowd rolled in. They start up the AC's and water heater's all within a short period of time and the voltage dipped to 99. When I walked about the campground, I asked a few if they knew that the voltage was low, only to be met with stupid looks and the "never had a problem" answers.

[SoundGuy]

wa8yxm wrote:
Surge protectors (Really spike suppressors) are nothing more than MOV's
The Hughes autoformer.. Huse put 'em in there. So putting a spike supressor type surge protector before it.. Over kill

They are easy to replace when they wear out and they do wear out.

Well, yes and no. 😉 Blow the MOVs in your Hughes Autoformer and the company wants you to return the entire unit to them for repair. 😞 For a unit weighing in excess of 20 lbs shipping costs, depending on where you are, can be an issue. For we Canadians we also have the additional problem of having to deal with customs, both sending it to the US and having it returned ... it's just a PITA. :M Same for a portable EMS like the Progressive EMS-PT30C or X - manufacturer wants you to return the entire unit to them for repair. :M That's one of the main reasons I instead chose a hard wire EMS-HW30C which the company considers "field serviceable" ... if it fails I can simply call Progressive, describe the problem and provide any error codes, and they'll mail me the replacement parts (which themselves are quite small and light weight) via USPS. MUCH easier :B ... but for me, as a Canadian, this why I think I'll just stick with my EMS that disconnects power to the rig when an error, including low voltage is detected, rather than change to an autoformer that would be significantly more aggravating to have repaired. 😞