Dinghy Towing

[moondogcooter]

I'm buying a 2015 Honda Fit as a tow behind my Class A. I'm 30,000 lbs it's 2500 lbs do I need a braking system in the car? ...
Doug

[rjstractor]

Bumpyroad wrote:

dodge guy wrote:


Most brake systems only operate in emergency braking situations. Normal braking and they don’t activate. So yes the coach brakes are doing all the stopping and are rated at the full GCWR.

my brake system did not only operate in emergency braking situations. on "normal" braking situations they do in fact operate.
I also think it is criminal to tow a toad without a break away system.
bumpy

That's very likely the case when towing with a class C motorhome or a light duty A. Those coaches basically have the same brakes as 1 ton pickup trucks. Their relative weight is also much less in relation to a toad. The OP has a 30,000 coach with air brakes and his toad weighs less than 10% of that. It will affect his stopping distance about as much as a big teenage boy in the back seat of his Fit. The weight difference is so much that any attempt to get the Fit brakes to engage and effect stopping distance on such a heavy combination would likely result in excessive wear on the Fit's brakes. A breakaway system, however is smart and makes sense.

[enblethen]

30,000 pound MH with a 250 pound toad, I would not get an Aux braking system.
If MH was lighter say half, I would get one.

[Y-Guy]

I'm going to ask to stop the legal debate of what a trailer is on this thread. If you want to debate this topic please feel free to start a new post. It seems that this debate comes up pretty often with some of the same players making their points, all good points, but none the less the OP asked about a specific vehicle.

[mowermech]

enblethen wrote:
Montana code Is clear sort of that a toad could be a trailer, so aux braking may be required.
Montana code for definition of a trailer
"61-1-101 (82) (a) Trailer means a vehicle, with or without motive power, other than a pole trailer, designed for carrying property and for being drawn by a motor vehicle and constructed so that no part of its weight rests on the towing vehicle.

Here is Washington law.
RCW 46.04.620
Trailer.
"Trailer" includes every vehicle without motive power designed for being drawn by or used in conjunction with a motor vehicle constructed so that no appreciable part of its weight rests upon or is carried by such motor vehicle, but does not include a municipal transit vehicle, or any portion thereof. "Trailer" does not include a cargo extension.

Montana Code: "Trailer means a vehicle....designed for carrying PROPERTY and for being drawn by a motor vehicle..."
A Honda or a Jeep (or whatever) is primarily designed to carry PEOPLE, and is not designed to be drawn by a motor vehicle. It must be modified to be towed!
A passenger vehicle is not a trailer, according to the legal definition. The same is true of Washington.

[enblethen]

Montana code Is clear sort of that a toad could be a trailer, so aux braking may be required.
Montana code for definition of a trailer
"61-1-101 (82) (a) Trailer means a vehicle, with or without motive power, other than a pole trailer, designed for carrying property and for being drawn by a motor vehicle and constructed so that no part of its weight rests on the towing vehicle.

Here is Washington law.
RCW 46.04.620
Trailer.
"Trailer" includes every vehicle without motive power designed for being drawn by or used in conjunction with a motor vehicle constructed so that no appreciable part of its weight rests upon or is carried by such motor vehicle, but does not include a municipal transit vehicle, or any portion thereof. "Trailer" does not include a cargo extension.

[mowermech]

It is really quite easy to determine if a towed vehicle is considered a "trailer". ALL state laws have a "Definitions" section in the Vehicle Code. Find the definition of "Trailer" in that Code.
For instance, here in Montana that can be found in MCA (Montana Code Annotated) 61-1-101 (82)(a). The trailer definition is very specific!

[enblethen]

This is not a law, but a statement. "If you wish to tow a vehicle behind your RV, you need to consider whether or not your motor home can handle the extra weight under all conditions (i.e., climbing steep hills or mountains). Your vehicle must have sufficient power to climb grades without holding up traffic and its braking power must be sufficient to stop the combined weight of the RV plus the car and/or tow dolly effectively. RV chassis manufacturers provide limits on the gross combined weight of the RV plus car"
Find something in this that makes your point.
Ca Laws

[sehunter]

enblethen wrote:
Sehunter: That is a not requirements. That is just some information. Need to find the law!

I'm sorry that is the California Department of Motor Vehicles which is the law.

[dodge_guy]

Bumpyroad wrote:

dodge guy wrote:


Most brake systems only operate in emergency braking situations. Normal braking and they don’t activate. So yes the coach brakes are doing all the stopping and are rated at the full GCWR.

my brake system did not only operate in emergency braking situations. on "normal" braking situations they do in fact operate.
I also think it is criminal to tow a toad without a break away system.
bumpy

I agree completely that a toad should have a functioning breakaway system. What I was saying was that some systems are only designed for breakaway. I do believe that some of the newer systems are proportional. All of this I don't know because I'm still relatively new with toads.

[Bumpyroad]

dodge guy wrote:


Most brake systems only operate in emergency braking situations. Normal braking and they don’t activate. So yes the coach brakes are doing all the stopping and are rated at the full GCWR.

my brake system did not only operate in emergency braking situations. on "normal" braking situations they do in fact operate.
I also think it is criminal to tow a toad without a break away system.
bumpy

[dodge_guy]

Bumpyroad wrote:

phil-t wrote:

moondogcooter wrote:
I'm buying a 2015 Honda Fit as a tow behind my Class A. I'm 30,000 lbs it's 2500 lbs do I need a braking system in the car? ...
Doug

"need" is a four letter word in my book, regardless of the law. WANT is a much better term for adding a braking system to your toad for dingy towing.

yep, it never surprises me that folks here will spend $100,000+ for a RV, $20,000 for a toad, $8000 for Full Body Paint to impress the neighbors, and won't spend $2000 for a safety item. they will look for some excuse, to justify not having a braking system, i.e. my MH will stop us, a towed car is not a trailer, the law doesn't mandate it, etc. etc.
bumpy

Most brake systems only operate in emergency braking situations. Normal braking and they don’t activate. So yes the coach brakes are doing all the stopping and are rated at the full GCWR.

[way2roll]

Despite the law or capacities, I wouldn't set up a car to tow without a supplemental braking system and breakaway kit. We had the ready brute elite tow bars and it had a mechanical braking system included in the bar, super simple and a no brainer. You will stop quicker with less work for the MH brakes and it's just plain safer for minimal cost. Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

[enblethen]

Sehunter: That is a not requirements. That is just some information. Need to find the law!

[Bumpyroad]

phil-t wrote:

moondogcooter wrote:
I'm buying a 2015 Honda Fit as a tow behind my Class A. I'm 30,000 lbs it's 2500 lbs do I need a braking system in the car? ...
Doug

"need" is a four letter word in my book, regardless of the law. WANT is a much better term for adding a braking system to your toad for dingy towing.

yep, it never surprises me that folks here will spend $100,000+ for a RV, $20,000 for a toad, $8000 for Full Body Paint to impress the neighbors, and won't spend $2000 for a safety item. they will look for some excuse, to justify not having a braking system, i.e. my MH will stop us, a towed car is not a trailer, the law doesn't mandate it, etc. etc.
bumpy