Dumping Black Water On The Ground?

[brookside]

At a group on FB this morning, they were discussing dumping black water on the ground. Tell me that this isn't something that is becoming popular! It has been awhile since we have camped but I am hoping it hasn't changed that much. The reasoning came down to the fact that bears poop in the woods. Well, not 30 gallons of raw sewage that has been fermenting in a plastic box for a few days. I just imagine that one day, the black water is dumped on the ground and the camper leaves and then I show up with my dogs, well, you know dogs and then the kids run around barefoot.......... And, frankly, I realized when they got off on comparing the 30 gallons of raw sewage with a pile of bear poop that I wasn't dealing with rocket scientists! I truly feel that if you can't afford the dump station or don't have the foresight to plan around free places to dump that maybe rving isn't for you. I know that dumping tanks and leaving trash is what has already closed many boondocking locations and while they try to blame cities for bans, it is more likely the behavior of a few that are ruining it for everyone else. Seriously, dumping the black tanks on the ground?

[kcmoedoe]

Parrothead Mike wrote:
Back in the early 80's I saw a septic tank truck coming out of a farmers pasture and that seemed strange to me. I saw it a second time so I investigated it and discovered that he had been dumping his load on the field. I phoned the Michigan Dept. of Natural Resources to report this and was told that it was permissible. I was truly shocked, but not much more I could do about it. I'm not sure what the regulations are in Michigan relative to this practice today though.

What do you think they use to fertilize all that "organic" food that is all the rage?

[Dottie5]

I think that is considered a biohazard and would be illegal. There are a lot of diseases that can be carried in feces along with ecoli. I can't imagine anyone would ever think dumping 30+ gallons of fecal matter liquified by water and urine is ever ok. If I ever see anyone doing it, I'll find out the proper authorities or agency to report them.

[Gene_Ginny]

pa traveler wrote:
Who wants to share what FB is ?

FaceBook, a social networking website.

[EsoxLucius]

Sprink-Fitter wrote:
We just had our septic tank pumped at our house, the guy said he would add something, lye I believe, to the tank of stuff and the dump it on a farmers field.

Lime

[Scott_85]

The sewage they spray on fields have been treated at least here in Virginia. I can't imagine dumping tanks at a camp ground, I cringe when I see people flushing their hoses on the ground.

[Parrothead_Mike]

Back in the early 80's I saw a septic tank truck coming out of a farmers pasture and that seemed strange to me. I saw it a second time so I investigated it and discovered that he had been dumping his load on the field. I phoned the Michigan Dept. of Natural Resources to report this and was told that it was permissible. I was truly shocked, but not much more I could do about it. I'm not sure what the regulations are in Michigan relative to this practice today though.

[Sprink-Fitter]

wa8yxm wrote:

bukhrn wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

sdianel wrote:
Illegal in many states. In some states even gray water has to be properly disposed of.

i'd like to see a list of states where it is legal to dump human waste on farm fields.
bumpy

I know for a fact that it used to be done in central NY years ago, it is no longer done.

I will comment on this, IF the farmer calls the septic clean out man and has him dump on the field next to the road a passing person may observer, and report, or if an L.E.O. take action.

If he dumps on the back 40, half a mile from said road on the other side of a hill, by the time the EPA investigates .. his grand children's grandchildren will be dead of old age.

Legal or not, Farmers get away with a lot of things simply because the investigators have no authority to set foot on the land without the farmer's permission. unless they have EVIDENCE of a crime in progress.. Which under the conditions I just sited, they would not have.

Same for an RV.

But in a campground,, Totally different issue, Here it is a public or semi-public place so the investigator may well be invited by someone else, odds of a neighbor seeing and reporting approach 100%.

And... In another thread somewhere (not sure were) is the story of a campground that least water/electric only sites to long term campers.. Well. one camper noticed his neighbor had been on site without moving to the dump station a long, long time. AND he did not have a blue boy waste tote.. Or equivalent, Finally caught him spreading it around and stomping it down... Reported to management.

Wound up being an EPA clean up site, the RVer was forced to move and they dug up quite a bit of dirt, new top soil, new seeding, sanitary disposal (I described all this earlier) and one humongous bill was sent to the offender.


There is an old saying I used to hear when I wore a younger man's cloths.. Everything is legal.... till you get caught.

And when it comes to what farmers spread on their field.

This applies.. Most of the other things I have read (Animals go in the woods and such) Does NOT apply.. But then I was a farm boy. I know what gets spread on the fields and where. Heck, I USED TO SPREAD IT. and Hog is dang close to human both in aroma and content.

We just had our septic tank pumped at our house, the guy said he would add something, lye I believe, to the tank of stuff and the dump it on a farmers field.

[wa8yxm]

bukhrn wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

sdianel wrote:
Illegal in many states. In some states even gray water has to be properly disposed of.

i'd like to see a list of states where it is legal to dump human waste on farm fields.
bumpy

I know for a fact that it used to be done in central NY years ago, it is no longer done.

I will comment on this, IF the farmer calls the septic clean out man and has him dump on the field next to the road a passing person may observer, and report, or if an L.E.O. take action.

If he dumps on the back 40, half a mile from said road on the other side of a hill, by the time the EPA investigates .. his grand children's grandchildren will be dead of old age.

Legal or not, Farmers get away with a lot of things simply because the investigators have no authority to set foot on the land without the farmer's permission. unless they have EVIDENCE of a crime in progress.. Which under the conditions I just sited, they would not have.

Same for an RV.

But in a campground,, Totally different issue, Here it is a public or semi-public place so the investigator may well be invited by someone else, odds of a neighbor seeing and reporting approach 100%.

And... In another thread somewhere (not sure were) is the story of a campground that least water/electric only sites to long term campers.. Well. one camper noticed his neighbor had been on site without moving to the dump station a long, long time. AND he did not have a blue boy waste tote.. Or equivalent, Finally caught him spreading it around and stomping it down... Reported to management.

Wound up being an EPA clean up site, the RVer was forced to move and they dug up quite a bit of dirt, new top soil, new seeding, sanitary disposal (I described all this earlier) and one humongous bill was sent to the offender.


There is an old saying I used to hear when I wore a younger man's cloths.. Everything is legal.... till you get caught.

And when it comes to what farmers spread on their field.

This applies.. Most of the other things I have read (Animals go in the woods and such) Does NOT apply.. But then I was a farm boy. I know what gets spread on the fields and where. Heck, I USED TO SPREAD IT. and Hog is dang close to human both in aroma and content.

[mlts22]

One thing I learned from some RV-ers who visit Mexico and boondock there: Some dig an Army-style latrine trench, empty the waste tanks into the hole, toss a bit of soil on it to help with smell, repeat the dump/toss soil on top process until they break camp.

I couldn't imagine doing that in the US, especially in the backcountry with the game wardens on constant patrol.

[calamus]

We can dump black water on 4 acres or more into a lagoon. Grey water is legal to dump on the ground at the state parks and is encouraged during dry periods to water bushes and trees at camp sites. We have done this for years and we have never had an issue with smell or mess.

[samhain7]

Here are some facts....#1 animals go in the woods. You can't control that....
But they don't go in a huge population of people and in the exact same spot as it would be in a campsite. Can you imagine if EVERYONE found this acceptable?
Spraying the feilds is different too. They use the "sludge" from the treatment plants for this mostly. Secondly, it is "Sprayed" not "dumped"....the plants or grass (in the case of a sod field) will grow and the ground is partially stripped (when it is plowed or the sod removed.
Again, if it were acceptable to dump a black tanks, you are dousing one spot and it likely will never be removed or turned...
Dumping a black tank on purpose is about the most disgusting thing I have ever heard of...and I have lived a good life and heard some disgusting things..

[bukhrn]

If these people think it's alright to do, ask them to please wait till you have an LEO present, then see if they still think it's OK. :S

[bukhrn]

Bumpyroad wrote:

sdianel wrote:
Illegal in many states. In some states even gray water has to be properly disposed of.

i'd like to see a list of states where it is legal to dump human waste on farm fields.
bumpy

I know for a fact that it used to be done in central NY years ago, it is no longer done.

[mlts22]

Mootpoint wrote:
I know of a person who did not like the car behind him following so close. Being a plumber by trade, he had a homemade electric valve system on the control panel and had his wife push the button for a second. Did I mention he failed to see the colored light array on top of the vehicle behind him?
It cost him a whole bunch of greenbacks to rectify the situation right down to paying for a hazmat crew to clean up the road.

Reminds me in 2011 when I was looking for a used TT. Went to look at one, started inspecting it. It had automatic valves that apparently hooked up to some apparatus in the guy's truck. However, when I looked down the toilet, I saw tarmac.

I asked him about it, and he said it was so he could dump all tanks while moving. However, he started ranting, and from his convoluted story, apparently he dropped a load of black water right in front of a DPS vehicle (DPS is Texas's equivalent of the CHP.)

After a $3500 fine (and I think he also had some other penalties), he just dropped the black tank from his TT and lets the stuff fall where it may when he goes camping.

Needless to say, I didn't buy his trailer. In fact, after the horror stories I had looking at used trailers, I bought a new model, called it done.

Of course, come SXSW, there are always storm drains in parts of Austin which smell like black water for a few weeks after the festival... and oddly enough, the same area where a number of dilapidated motorhomes parallel park nearby.

Texas police and troopers, as a whole, tend have not much tolerance for black water dumpers. Mainly because it is being done so often, coupled with the fact that it can foul a complete watershed (and with a constant drought, the smelly water dries and stays bad for a long time), that even dumping fresh water can get someone with a badge around asking pointed questions.