Dumping Tanks in an Empty Full Service Site

[ronny7800]

Last week I was staying in a full service site in a national park. The park has hundreds of sites, only about a third of which are full service. The rest of the park shares 2 dump stations which are always lined up in the morning.

Each morning, though, I witnessed people pull into empty full service sites, dump their tanks and move on.

Thoughts on this? A good idea & something you would do? Or potentially creating a mess the next user has to deal with?

[Tom_Barb]

In areas that freeze, I can see posting that certain sites can not be used when the possibility of the sewage drain is not going to work.
But just making rules that certain sites can't be used because you didn't pay a few cents, Seems to me to not be very customer friendly. Those cap grounds would rather see their customers stand in line and wait.

[toedtoes]

WTP-GC wrote:

One of the interesting parts of this thread is very common throughout the forum in general: people believe certain things to be universal in nature.

I agree with this statement. Unfortunately, your additional comments do exactly what you accused others of doing.

The truth is that each park should be able to allow or disallow dumping at FHU sites according to THEIR individual circumstances.

Do not assume it's OK to do because you saw it done somewhere else, or another park told you to do it.

Ask the individual park and abide by their answer.

I never quite understand why that is so difficult for folks - they come up with one reason why it should be allowed (it will decrease traffic) and never acknowledge that there are other factors involved (traffic in the park, individual sewer specs, other patrons, etc.).

[pianotuna]

westernrvparkowner,

As usual I've learned new things from you. Thanks so much for giving we RV'ers a look from the "other side" of the campground.

The local year round campground has a very few sewer equipped sites. They are not allowed to use a drain field, so the pipes terminate at the main sewer dump. It has become a MAJOR expense for them as the city now surcharges more than the cost of the vacuum truck. Decisions in the past do have unforeseen consequences for the future.

When the campground was established, the owner was a farmer--and he would have the waste truck dump on his land. The current owner is paying through the nose as a result, with three visits per day from the sewer service in summer time.

[westernrvparkow]

WTP-GC wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Apparently you have no comprehension regarding septic systems. That 3" or 4" pipe leads to a holding tank and all the solids settle to the bottom and the liquids flow thru perforated 1 inch pipes into the drain fields. To determine how much area those perforated pipes must cover the engineer performs a percolation test. They then use a formula that takes the percolation performance and the amount of liquid anticipated to determine the size of the drain field. Far exceed that liquid amount and the liquid doesn't seep into the ground and instead forms pools of waste water on the surface. As I previously posted many parks have several septic systems and the systems tied to full hookup sites are designed to process that waste, not the waste of multiple dumps in a rapid succession.

One of the interesting parts of this thread is very common throughout the forum in general: people believe certain things to be universal in nature. And this comment above is extremely indicative of that mindset.

As a matter of fact, I've spent my entire career, over many years, designing, building, expanding and consulting with people about their sewer systems. Don't make the mistake believing that your onsite treatment system in Montana is equitable to every other campground out there (as your comment suggests). The description of your system is different that every other system I've been involved with, so...

You have never been involved with drain fields, yet you spent your entire career designing, building and expanding sewer systems? Guess that is entirely possible if you were in the business of designing municipal treatment plants. But that is like saying in a discussion about home sizes and costs that you have built buildings all your life and never have ever heard of one having the need for a bedroom, leaving out the fact you build strip malls. Drain fields are an essential part of most RV park waste disposal systems unless that park is hooked into a municipal sewer system.

[WTP-GC]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Apparently you have no comprehension regarding septic systems. That 3" or 4" pipe leads to a holding tank and all the solids settle to the bottom and the liquids flow thru perforated 1 inch pipes into the drain fields. To determine how much area those perforated pipes must cover the engineer performs a percolation test. They then use a formula that takes the percolation performance and the amount of liquid anticipated to determine the size of the drain field. Far exceed that liquid amount and the liquid doesn't seep into the ground and instead forms pools of waste water on the surface. As I previously posted many parks have several septic systems and the systems tied to full hookup sites are designed to process that waste, not the waste of multiple dumps in a rapid succession.

One of the interesting parts of this thread is very common throughout the forum in general: people believe certain things to be universal in nature. And this comment above is extremely indicative of that mindset.

As a matter of fact, I've spent my entire career, over many years, designing, building, expanding and consulting with people about their sewer systems. Don't make the mistake believing that your onsite treatment system in Montana is equitable to every other campground out there (as your comment suggests). The description of your system is different that every other system I've been involved with, so...

[Hondavalk]

At Ohio State parks its the same price, full hook up or electric only. This year I was in a long line waiting to get to the dump station and a camp host in a gulf cart was telling people they could dump at full hook up sites. For the most part I need to leave on Mondays to miss Sundays rush anyways. HAPPY CAMPING!

[Cummins12V98]

"The thread was started to elicit opinions and have a debate. I’d say given the response to this, I’ve accomplished what I’ve set out to do."

IMHO Sir you stirred up a lot go SH!T. :B

[valhalla360]

BillyBob Jim wrote:
You'll be cited at the PA park we host at if caught. It has nothing to do with all of it going to the same place, which are idiotic comments. It has everything to do with sanitation. the campsites have sewer connections usually surrounded by grass, not paved surfaces around them and containment provisions like the common dump stations down at the entrance have.

For those who think its acceptable, I hope you show up at a full hook up site you reserved and it's trashed with toilet paper remnants among other things, because of it's use as a high volume dump station prior to your arrival.

If it's not sanitary, they shouldn't let full hook up customers use it either. There is nothing that says FHU customers are any cleaner.

Of course, if you leave a mess at a FHU site or the dump station, you should be reprimanded.

Bottom line, the owner gets to make the rules but there really isn't much reason to prohibit it as long as you aren't leaving a mess and don't block access for someone who has paid for the site.

[ronny7800]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

ronny7800 wrote:
Last week I was staying in a full service site in a national park. The park has hundreds of sites, only about a third of which are full service. The rest of the park shares 2 dump stations which are always lined up in the morning.

Each morning, though, I witnessed people pull into empty full service sites, dump their tanks and move on.

Thoughts on this? A good idea & something you would do? Or potentially creating a mess the next user has to deal with?

Whether pro or con......what does it matter?

Is there something "we" should do about it?

Which answer would YOU prefer?

The thread is a forum "dump" - belongs in Around The Campfire Forum discussions.

:R

I’m firmly in the camp it’s a sanitation issue and shouldn’t be done unless directed to do so by management. I’m sure all of us on this forum can dump our tanks without making a mess yet some dump stations look like complete disasters after a few hours of use.

The thread was started to elicit opinions and have a debate. I’d say given the response to this, I’ve accomplished what I’ve set out to do.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

ronny7800 wrote:
Last week I was staying in a full service site in a national park. The park has hundreds of sites, only about a third of which are full service. The rest of the park shares 2 dump stations which are always lined up in the morning.

Each morning, though, I witnessed people pull into empty full service sites, dump their tanks and move on.

Thoughts on this? A good idea & something you would do? Or potentially creating a mess the next user has to deal with?

Whether pro or con......what does it matter?

Is there something "we" should do about it?

Which answer would YOU prefer?

The thread is a forum "dump" - belongs in Around The Campfire Forum discussions.

:R

[Tom_Barb]

BillyBob Jim wrote:
You'll be cited at the PA park we host at if caught. It has nothing to do with all of it going to the same place, which are idiotic comments. It has everything to do with sanitation. the campsites have sewer connections usually surrounded by grass, not paved surfaces around them and containment provisions like the common dump stations down at the entrance have.

For those who think its acceptable, I hope you show up at a full hook up site you reserved and it's trashed with toilet paper remnants among other things, because of it's use as a high volume dump station prior to your arrival.

The specific charge is "Unauthorized use of facilities". Fine with costs is @ $167.00 and the rangers hand them out fairly regular, especially on Sunday afternoons.

Remind me again, where do you host?

Who wants to deal with this?

[pianotuna]

The campground I needed to stay in was NOT happy to have folks use full service sites for dumping.

[mich800]

Halmfamily wrote:
We do this all the time when we stay at our local state park. The dump station is a 1/4 mile away and the nearest site with sewer is less then 1000'. So much easier and it goes into the same public sewer.

Think of the time saved and fuel on that 300 feet :B



All in fun.

[Halmfamily]

We do this all the time when we stay at our local state park. The dump station is a 1/4 mile away and the nearest site with sewer is less then 1000'. So much easier and it goes into the same public sewer.

[Old-Biscuit]

:S