Engine temperature while towing
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Jun-12-2014 11:57 AM
I have a buddy who has a 2002 Silverado 2500HD with a 496 big block (8 litre) in it (only 40,000 miles and immaculate yet). He tows a 8400 lb camper that is about 9500 lbs loaded. He said that even with that truck it heats up on mountains, but has never once over-heated. He says it will go all the way up to red on big mountains, but doesn't ever overheat so he was saying not to worry about it because it can handle it.
I'm a bit worried about letting the gauge go that high to see if it can do it and not overheat. What are the experiences of those here? Is it normal to expect the gauge to go up near red and should I not worry about it? My tendency is to let it get up to maybe 240 and then pull off and let it cool down. I know turning off A/C and even turning on the heater can help so I'll turn off the A/C as a first step. Thoughts?
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Jun-16-2014 02:21 PM
Hybridhunter wrote:
Side note - It would be nice to see the 60's trans temp chart disappear from the internet forever. Temperature operating ranges have changed over the years!
X3!
2010 Chevy Suburban 1500 LT, Z71 package, 5.3/6A/3.42
2015 Ford F150 XLT Supercrew, 2.7 Ecoboost/6A/3.55 LS
Prior TVs:
2011 Ford F150 Ecoboost 3.5
2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax LBZ
2005 Chevy Suburban 1500 4x4 LT, 5.3/4A/4.10
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Jun-14-2014 10:55 PM
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Jun-14-2014 09:12 PM
smkettner wrote:
This goes back to 2002 on Ford transmission temperature gauge.
An Editorial by dieselmann
Aha, very close to what the modern F150 does, I believe the gauge now goes red at a lower pan temp, the torque converter temp might be similar to what dieselman indicated. He is incorrect as to the effects on the new low viscosity fluid.
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Jun-14-2014 07:25 PM
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Jun-14-2014 06:40 PM
RFOneWatt wrote:Campfire Time wrote:
Some temp gauges are just pretty front ends that replace the old dummy lights. They have 3 settings. Cold, just right, or over heating.
The gauges in my 2007 Expedition 5.4L were as you describe.
I thought I would be fine if I watched my temp gauges when in the mountains and simply slow down when they started to climb.
NOPE. as soon as the gauge moved at all the dashboard lit up like a christmas tree (ALL gauges pegged, all lights on) and computer reading "VEHICLE OVERHEATING - PULL OVER"
No wiggle room. Not knowing how much time I had to pull over was also a bit stressful with a couple big trucks behind me, somewheres around Yellowstone.
As soon as I got back home to Michigan I traded the Expy in for a diesel TV, bought a $9.95 OBD II reader and the Torque OBD App for my phone.
Now I don't worry. (about that haha)
I loved that Expy though.
-RF
Any of the post 2009 F150's and any 250/350's going back to the mid 2000's do increment up after 225F. Both the engine temp and transmission temp. I can't speculate as to if or why older ones don't seem to. (Dead up and down trans temp is 230F, one notch over is around 240F, adjacent to the red is 250's, and overheat and cluster warning is around 257 IIRC, normal gauge position is just shy of half which emcompases 190 - 229, "normal" temp is 200-212ish). Feel free to correct those numbers if I got it wrong.
The voltage readout is basically an idiot light though, I'm fairly certain it is binary in operation. But normal on the new efficient electrical system varies from 12.5v to 14v, so a accurate gauge would swing constantly, and not as expected.
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Jun-14-2014 04:30 PM
BenK wrote:
...snip...
Many say today's vehicle are: "good for it"...yes, but I like to keep
below their maximum's for longevity and the biggie for me: Power mode
Also like to keep it just above the set point when it goes from open
loop control to closed loop control. Hot enough to pass smog in Calif
and low enough to have plenty of margin for power mode, which will
heat it up quickly if left in WOT for long.....snip....
Yep, I agree with Ben on this. For me, the key word in his statement there is "longevity". I keep my vehicles a long time. I want them to be reliable throughout their usable life. So for me, I prefer to see water temps for the most part under 200F. Anything over 220 is cause for alarm in my book. In fact 215 starts to make me watch it closely and begin changes in the drive pattern to reduce stress and heat.
Others may wanna let 'em run hot....the new VM Motori 3.0TD in the Ram truck is apparently a hot runner. Time will tell if this is a good strategy or not.
I'm not gonna be one spending "my" dollars to do the beta testing on that deal.
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Jun-14-2014 03:13 PM
Campfire Time wrote:
Some temp gauges are just pretty front ends that replace the old dummy lights. They have 3 settings. Cold, just right, or over heating.
The gauges in my 2007 Expedition 5.4L were as you describe.
I thought I would be fine if I watched my temp gauges when in the mountains and simply slow down when they started to climb.
NOPE. as soon as the gauge moved at all the dashboard lit up like a christmas tree (ALL gauges pegged, all lights on) and computer reading "VEHICLE OVERHEATING - PULL OVER"
No wiggle room. Not knowing how much time I had to pull over was also a bit stressful with a couple big trucks behind me, somewheres around Yellowstone.
As soon as I got back home to Michigan I traded the Expy in for a diesel TV, bought a $9.95 OBD II reader and the Torque OBD App for my phone.
Now I don't worry. (about that haha)
I loved that Expy though.
-RF
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Jun-14-2014 08:57 AM
Side note - It would be nice to see the 60's trans temp chart disappear from the internet forever. Temperature operating ranges have changed over the years!
X1000000000. It should be banned forever unless you're running a T400 or a C6 with 1958 ATF in it.
"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"
"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."- Abraham Lincoln
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Jun-14-2014 08:26 AM
Ford is obsessive about controlling operating temps, more so than other manufacturers have been in the past.
I have experienced both first hand, and it can be verified on other forums from people who use scangauges. (I previously ran a Scangauge II with x gauges, now I run and OBD WIFI Iphone dongle)
Side note - It would be nice to see the 60's trans temp chart disappear from the internet forever. Temperature operating ranges have changed over the years!
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Jun-13-2014 02:40 PM
This is a pic of the temp gauge in my 2007 Cummins powered Ram 3500 when pulling my 37' 5er up a mountain grade in Utah in 100*F temps. I kept on going, but I kept an eye on the gauge.
Heating up when working hard is normal - well, except in some vehicles that have "fake" temperature gauges that never move (cough cough *Ford*).
02 Dodge 2500 4x4 5.9L CTD 3.55
07 Dodge 3500 4x4 SRW Mega 5.9L CTD 3.73
14 Ram 2500 4x4 Crew 6.4L Hemi 4.10
06 Chevy 1500 4x4 E-Cab 3.73 5.3L
07 Dodge 1500 5.7L Hemi 3.55 / 2010 Jayco 17z
All above are sold, no longer own an RV
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Jun-13-2014 10:54 AM
Heat, especially higher temps, age things. Every thing. Shortens their
life span.
It takes energy to move all that weight. More as you go faster. Even
more when you go up inclines. The faster and steeper it is, the more
energy it will take. Factored by the weight...more requires more energy
ICE's are only, at best, 40% efficient (2 cycle diesel). Gassers are
even more in-efficient. That only a percentage of the heat generated
by the cylinder combustion is put to the pavement. The rest is rejected
via the various cooling systems
Then the losses. Pumping losses in the engine. The hydraulic coupling
losses of the automatic. Less when it is locked up, but there are
losses in the gearing. Ditto the diff and transfer case (if you have one)
Both the ICE and automatic has their own computer these days. Both
have safety set points where they will NOT allow power mode...to then
drop down into lesser and lesser till it reaches limp mode
Those safeties mainly use component/system temperature levels as their
set points as to when it will phase back power
Heat rejection is via the main coolant radiator, which has in most
cases (or with the tow package) has engine oil radiator inside that
main radiator. Ditto ATF radiator inside the main radiator and with
the tow package...adds another external ATF radiator
Many say today's vehicle are: "good for it"...yes, but I like to keep
below their maximum's for longevity and the biggie for me: Power mode
Also like to keep it just above the set point when it goes from open
loop control to closed loop control. Hot enough to pass smog in Calif
and low enough to have plenty of margin for power mode, which will
heat it up quickly if left in WOT for long
So to answer the OP's question...yes your thoughts good. Pulling
over and turning off heat generating accessories. Even turn on the
heater (that is another radiator).
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...
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Jun-13-2014 10:45 AM
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Jun-13-2014 09:52 AM
Like this..
http://www.amazon.com/Flex-lite-4120-Translife-Transmission/dp/B00029J3WK
Also as far as trans temps, once you get near 200f varnishes start forming IMO. I only use synthetic in the trans too...
As far as the engine temps thats way too high IMO.. Maybe you need to check the coolant %??
I would be looking into an oil cooler possibly . ( Synthetic oil too.)
Its your truck though and its just opinion.
I personally run as cool as I can. Heat kills...I can tow all day and not reach over 180f.
2006 Silverado ext cab long bed. 3:42 rear. LM7 5.3 motor. 300 hp 350 ft lbs torgue @ 4000 rpms
2018 coachmen Catalina sbx 261bh
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Jun-13-2014 08:58 AM
200* for trans temps is no problem, especially if that is as high as it gets. 230* on the water is fine, too, especially if it stops when it gets there. A lot of the old school guys will have concern about these numbers, but they are well within the acceptable operating range for your truck.
2010 Chevy Suburban 1500 LT, Z71 package, 5.3/6A/3.42
2015 Ford F150 XLT Supercrew, 2.7 Ecoboost/6A/3.55 LS
Prior TVs:
2011 Ford F150 Ecoboost 3.5
2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax LBZ
2005 Chevy Suburban 1500 4x4 LT, 5.3/4A/4.10