Ev charging in camps expectation of availability, cost

[SDcampowneroper]

Evs in our region are primarily the few commuters or as tows behind MHs to use as tour the area vehicles. Commuters recharge at home maybe at work, though I do not know of any companies here that offer that service yet,
What I want you to post is as you travel with an EV towed, perhaps someday as a tow, how do you expect camp power supplies to be equal to charging your vehicle. An argument that EVs popularity growth will be met equally by growth in power generation and distribution has merit in metropolitan areas with steady power use curves. where the increase is anticipated. Its not so well defined in areas with regional high power use times,

Camps built yesterday did not -could not - put in the infrastructure to meet such massive electrical loads that serving the rvs and EV recharging. Where once 4/0 al cabling served by a 200a main to x # 50a rv sites, will quickly by overloaded with only a couple of recharging vehicles.
How is an existing camp to meet that load, pass the costs on?
How is a new camp to design for that potentiality, Pass the costs on?


I do not have a dog in this fight, we sold our camp last year and retired.

[Reisender]

qtla9111 wrote:
A lot of state and national parks are opening charging stations. I've never understood the haggle over hookups when you have a 45ft motorhome with three A/Cs and a popup next to it with the same overnight fee. So why the haggle over having an EV using a hookup?

Limit it to a trickle charge only. People are towing now with EVs and they'll be looking for charging stations.

I agree Chris. Even on a 30 amp site one could set charge to 8 or 12 amps and still have adequate current for something like your fun finder. Depending how things go we might get a little teardrop this year to pull behind Angela’s Tesla. We usually hang out for a few days at each stop. Even a 30 amp connection would work for us.

Cuidate dude.

[qtla9111]

A lot of state and national parks are opening charging stations. I've never understood the haggle over hookups when you have a 45ft motorhome with three A/Cs and a popup next to it with the same overnight fee. So why the haggle over having an EV using a hookup?

Limit it to a trickle charge only. People are towing now with EVs and they'll be looking for charging stations.

[Reisender]

Nice. Still curious to see if either will enable some kind of regen function so one can arrive at end of day with 80 percent...or whatever.

[time2roll]

Bollinger confirms 4down towing direct in the FAQ. Rivian additional range and flat tow is looking real good. Can't wait for the off-road capability comparisons.

[Reisender]

time2roll wrote:
Rivian 4 down? Only one I know is Bollinger.

Well, assuming they don't change things they tweeted that it will be four down towable.

I didn't know Bollinger waws as well. That makes two.

[time2roll]

Rivian 4 down? Only one I know is Bollinger.

[Reisender]

JRscooby wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Reisender wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
But wouldn't that regenerative running create a pretty large drag on the tow vehicle? I mean it's part of the braking system isn't it?

It would be like driving with your brakes on for half an hour,

It would be convenient though. Arrive with a charged battery etc. We’ll have to wait to see what Rivian comes up with.

ROFLMAO!
And this, folks, is the world some problem actually live in....sweet dreams!

I’m not even going to look it up,but regenerative charging provides only a small fraction of typical charging. It can’t do more than that until those Unicorn Farts actually become real!

I don't know anything about EVs. But logic tells me that in normal driving the regen, even if it put power back in faster than hard acceleration pulled it out, would be a small part of the power demanded for a given trip. Bell, what percentage of the time are you on the whoa pedal? And as you slow the weight the rate of charge decrease.
Now I'm going to trump up some numbers. If instead of slowing a 4,000 lb you are slowing a 40,000 lb combination would you get a faster recharge? And if you think about it very little of the stored power, if any, will be needed to move the EV in a day's travel, why couldn't you finish the day with full charged?

I think some are losing site of the sceenario discussed. This is an Electric vehicle being towed behind a motorhome as a toad. If you do that with a Tesla it will charge the battery until it is full and then stop charging. It will happen pretty fast as regen can generate up to around 100 KW although some documents indicate it is lower at around 77 KW. Lots of videos on you tube have tested this and it works. BUT BUT BUT, with a Tesla the only way to make this happen is if the vehicle is turned on. And with a Tesla there is no on switch. Your butt in the seat turns on the car. If nobody is in the drivers seat it won't happen.

Rivian indicates there electric truck and SUV will be towable four down but don't indicate if regen will be enabled when towing four down. .



Cheers.

[JRscooby]

Grit dog wrote:

Reisender wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
But wouldn't that regenerative running create a pretty large drag on the tow vehicle? I mean it's part of the braking system isn't it?

It would be like driving with your brakes on for half an hour,

It would be convenient though. Arrive with a charged battery etc. We’ll have to wait to see what Rivian comes up with.

ROFLMAO!
And this, folks, is the world some problem actually live in....sweet dreams!

I’m not even going to look it up,but regenerative charging provides only a small fraction of typical charging. It can’t do more than that until those Unicorn Farts actually become real!

I don't know anything about EVs. But logic tells me that in normal driving the regen, even if it put power back in faster than hard acceleration pulled it out, would be a small part of the power demanded for a given trip. Bell, what percentage of the time are you on the whoa pedal? And as you slow the weight the rate of charge decrease.
Now I'm going to trump up some numbers. If instead of slowing a 4,000 lb you are slowing a 40,000 lb combination would you get a faster recharge? And if you think about it very little of the stored power, if any, will be needed to move the EV in a day's travel, why couldn't you finish the day with full charged?

[wapiticountry]

pianotuna wrote:
Hmmm,

Norway used LESS power in 2020 than it did in 2010. So much for increased consumption due to BEV's.

I think it is safe to say heating would be the major contributor to electrical consumption in Norway. If 2010 was a cold year and 2020 a warm year that is the most likely factor.

[time2roll]

pianotuna wrote:
Hmmm,

Norway used LESS power in 2020 than it did in 2010. So much for increased consumption due to BEV's.

Probably LED lights saved enough power for the vehicles.

[pianotuna]

Hmmm,

Norway used LESS power in 2020 than it did in 2010. So much for increased consumption due to BEV's.

[Reisender]

nickthehunter wrote:

Reisender wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Reisender wrote:
At the end of the day no one will force a business owner to adapt.

Which is why the EV charger will be located somewhere very close to the electrical service entrance infrastructure (which may not be anywhere close to your site). If you want to charge your EV you take there, if not you’ll adapt. The cost of running the amount of power needed to provide EV charging to individual site is astronomical. It is not economically feasible. It’s not like running power from your breaker panel to your garage. But you can go ahead and keep believing the parks are going to come to you or go broke.

I think different parks will adapt different ways, just like hotels, golf courses, restaurants. If the park can only afford to add a few J1772 L2 EVSE's then I am sure that the EVer would appreciate them. I know I would.

So you would “appreciate” one; but how much extra over and above a non EV serviced site would you and your fellow EV’ers be willing to pay? Appreciation rarely pays the bills; however money talks and...

Well, I can't speak for other EVers. But personally?. Right now, on a road trip, when I go to a Supercharger other non Tesla DC fast charger I pay I pay 3 to 5 times the cost of charging at home just for the fast charge service. I would think I would be happy to pay the same for an over night charge so I would be ready to hit the road the next day with a full tank. There is probably a healthy margin in there as well for the operator. So say a half ton sucks up 150 kw of power at 10 cents per KW. Charge 40 bucks for the service. I would do that. I'm on holidays. Meh. Adjust accordingly for costs in your area. Others may feel differently. To each his own.

However, the flat rate might be less appealing to those who just want to top up. So a time based billing might be better albeit a little more high tech as one would have to use a commercial EVSE costing closer to a couple grand as opposed to a 800 dollar EVSE (or even free from Tesla).

One of the things the wineries around here are doing is getting the free EVSE's from Tesla and installing them in their parking lots. The only expense is the installation. Its definitely an attraction for customers as it seems popular. Its getting less important as vehicle ranges are getting longer, but still, dinner and a wine tasting while the car is charging is kinda cool. We have done it a few times. Everybody wins. Most only have one or two right now but then again, there are still not a ton of EV's on the road. Where we are about 10 percent of the new vehicles sold are EV's, but with EV trucks hitting the road this year and next that will probably jump up soon. COVID has slowed everything down around here a bit. Anyway, my point is, the Tesla free EVSE program might be an easy way to start. And they will provide both a Tesla and non Tesla EVSE if you wish. You would have to get in touch with Tesla for the details but seems to work for some. One would need a couple of 60 amp circuits although they are dip switch settable to work on 50 amp circuits. It would look something like this.

Cheers

[time2roll]

wapiticountry wrote:
Like every other park in the country, I do not have the ability to just add a charging station at a site.

I was thinking add some charging at the office, pool, laundry, shower house where you might have an extra spot and some electric. If it is not going to work just skip it. There are no requirements. Just voluntary to possibly attract an EV patron to camp. Right now these are extremely few so no rush. I am sure you have a dozen other things that need attention.

[nickthehunter]

Reisender wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Reisender wrote:
At the end of the day no one will force a business owner to adapt.

Which is why the EV charger will be located somewhere very close to the electrical service entrance infrastructure (which may not be anywhere close to your site). If you want to charge your EV you take there, if not you’ll adapt. The cost of running the amount of power needed to provide EV charging to individual site is astronomical. It is not economically feasible. It’s not like running power from your breaker panel to your garage. But you can go ahead and keep believing the parks are going to come to you or go broke.

I think different parks will adapt different ways, just like hotels, golf courses, restaurants. If the park can only afford to add a few J1772 L2 EVSE's then I am sure that the EVer would appreciate them. I know I would.

So you would “appreciate” one; but how much extra over and above a non EV serviced site would you and your fellow EV’ers be willing to pay? Appreciation rarely pays the bills; however money talks and...

[Lantley]

Once again its not a one size fits all answer. Getting additional power to individual sites in general will be most costly than a remote charging station.
However we know this is not always the case.
Parks will invest as demand increases. In most cases parks will decide which location will be most profitable.
Campers will adjust accordingly. a CG with at site charging will be more desirable than a CG with remote charging. (assuming there is a at site charge site available!)
CG's that provide EV charging will be more desirable than a CG with no EV charging allowed. Supply and demand will sort this out!