First Long Road Trip

Well the results are in on the weigh in at the CAT Scales I would say I'm a little shocked it didn't move very much so thinking Link #4 is the best?

Bare SUV
Front Axle 3340lbs with 36" Wheel Well
Rear Axle 3480 with 36" Wheel Well
Trailer is 7680lbs empty

Link #3
Front Axle 3220lbs with 38" WW
Rear Axle 4540lbs with 32" WW
Trailer 7680lbs

Link #4
Front Axle 3320lbs with 36" WW
Rear Axle 4400lbs with 35" WW
Trailer 7700lbs

Link #5
Front Axle 3360lbs with 36" WW
Rear Axle 4300lbs with 35" WW
Trailer 7740lbs

Thanks for all the advise my next experiment is to go to 5 links and see what she weighs at the scale. Plus got the LOAD Range E tires and see how that runs as well. I also know that I'm most likely not tightening down the sway bars enough. I know not to crank them down but a buddy suggested when getting on the interstate give them a little extra turn. Then just simply ease off when you get off the interstate.

But took it off on a drive and around 60mph it seemed fine and will see what going up to 5 links does on the front and rear axle weights and go from there.

We have our first trip set for next week and its only an hour drive but again good first test on the interstate with all the adjustments. Will give feedback on the weights when I get it done.

Boomerweps wrote:

Grit do wrote:
Fortunately, you're mistaken. But in the "steering balance equation", whatever that is, how much difference does a couple hundred lbs above or below the unloaded FA weight make?

Odd turn of phrase. I seek enlightenment. I like strong opinions, I just like the data backing them up. Only have/had one WDH for a couple years but I’ve worked it every which way but loose, between post delivery on old TV, new TV, lifted “flipped” axle, measuring every corner each time on the TVs & TT.

Not meant to be cynical.
But consider.
Add trailer. Adds weight to RA, fulcrum effect removes weight from FA.
Add wdh, wdh opposes the downward force of the hitch and removes some of the tongue weight transferring it to the FA and trailer axles.
Weight comment was centered around splitting hairs about a couple hundred lbs on a 3000-4000lb load. Can’t say I’ve ever noticed a difference with a small weight reduction on FA due to trailer.

mr_andyj wrote:
Difference on a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton truck (suv)=
usually is the same frame with a few extra pieces welded to the frame to make it stronger, usually turning what is called the C-channel frame shape and closing it into a tube in key areas,
and
heavier rear axle and differential.
and
either extra leaf spring or just a bigger set of leaf springs
or
if rear coil springs, then a heavier set of springs to take more weight.

other things include bigger brake rotors/calipers and other upgrades that will not affect towing a trailer forward so I will not mention as these are not the discussion.

Sounds like you did your homework and are within the limits of the vehicle. You might find that 60 mph is almost as fast as you want to tow, for safety and for mpg's. Leave 5 mins early if you are in a hurry, right?

Think of the WD hitch setup as a triangle that includes Tv front axle, the ball hitch and the trailer axle ( not need to include other axles here).
The bottom left corner is the TV front axle, the bottom right is the trailer axle (s) and the top corner is the ball.
With no WDH there is a connection from bottom right to top, and bottom left to top, but nothing from the bottom corner to bottom corner.
With WDH the bottom corners are also attached.
Stay with me...
If you pull the bottom corners together then the forces tend to pull those "legs" towards each other and push the top corner (the ball) up.
IF those legs have extra axles on them, like the rear axle on a TV, then those axles would eventually come off the ground, but in this case they are just unweighted a little.
This is a good way to visualize what the WDH does.

Wholly incorrect on the frame/ chassis thing. At least for most vehicles in the last 30 years or so as most are already fully boxed rear frame sections. Yes most components are heavier, but generally the frame is totally different. Some share the same bodywork/ dimensions, other have a completely different body as well.

Grit do wrote:
Fortunately, you're mistaken. But in the "steering balance equation", whatever that is, how much difference does a couple hundred lbs above or below the unloaded FA weight make?

Odd turn of phrase. I seek enlightenment. I like strong opinions, I just like the data backing them up. Only have/had one WDH for a couple years but I’ve worked it every which way but loose, between post delivery on old TV, new TV, lifted “flipped” axle, measuring every corner each time on the TVs & TT.

Difference on a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton truck (suv)=
usually is the same frame with a few extra pieces welded to the frame to make it stronger, usually turning what is called the C-channel frame shape and closing it into a tube in key areas,
and
heavier rear axle and differential.
and
either extra leaf spring or just a bigger set of leaf springs
or
if rear coil springs, then a heavier set of springs to take more weight.

other things include bigger brake rotors/calipers and other upgrades that will not affect towing a trailer forward so I will not mention as these are not the discussion.

Sounds like you did your homework and are within the limits of the vehicle. You might find that 60 mph is almost as fast as you want to tow, for safety and for mpg's. Leave 5 mins early if you are in a hurry, right?

Think of the WD hitch setup as a triangle that includes Tv front axle, the ball hitch and the trailer axle ( not need to include other axles here).
The bottom left corner is the TV front axle, the bottom right is the trailer axle (s) and the top corner is the ball.
With no WDH there is a connection from bottom right to top, and bottom left to top, but nothing from the bottom corner to bottom corner.
With WDH the bottom corners are also attached.
Stay with me...
If you pull the bottom corners together then the forces tend to pull those "legs" towards each other and push the top corner (the ball) up.
IF those legs have extra axles on them, like the rear axle on a TV, then those axles would eventually come off the ground, but in this case they are just unweighted a little.
This is a good way to visualize what the WDH does.

Boomerweps wrote:


I look at a a WDH to be like a handle that pushes down on the whole TV on all four wheels. I think returning the front weight is great but not enough. Because the extra rear weight pushing the TV down in the rear unloads the front relative to the rear. So pushing a couple hundred pounds to the front wheels works better for me in the steering balance equation.
Shorter answer: I’d try five links before settling down.

Fortunately, you're mistaken. But in the "steering balance equation", whatever that is, how much difference does a couple hundred lbs above or below the unloaded FA weight make?

I’d just bring the tools to adjust your WDH with you and adjust on the side of the road. You can have your weights “perfect” and the trailer is all over the place, you can also have your weights way off and it pull just fine. If your driving and it doesn’t feel right, put an extra link on, or tighten your sway control a bit.

Lusson wrote:
Ok I will try to make it more clear here.

Nothing on the Expedition
Front Axle 3340lbs with 36" Wheel Well Spacing
Rear Axle 3480 with 36" Wheel Well Spacing

With WDH on Link #3
Front Axle 3220lbs with 36" Wheel Well Spacing
Rear Axle 4540lbs with 33" Wheel Well Spacing
Trailer Weight on Both Axles 7520lbs

With WDH on Link #4
Front Axle 3340lbs with 36" Wheel Well Spacing
Rear Axle 4380lbs with 34 3/4" Wheel Well Spacing
Trailer Weight on Both Axles 7740lbs

So thinking I have my front axle back to normal and not light which I thought I could feel when hit a bump with steering getting light. Also again putting on Load Range E tires to help with SUV sway and adding a extra sway bar with having such a long and heavy trailer.

Hope that clears items up and these were with everything loaded as going camping and people. GCVW for mine is 15,460 and figure my hitch weight is around 1000lbs. so that puts it right at 15%.

Again most camping is going to be 50 miles at most with one trip a year being about 1000 miles round trip. Handles good now until I get up around 65-70mph this was on WDH Link #3 and again its been 20mph winds each time so figure just keep her in the 60-65mph range when driving and sway should be gone with all other changes should see how things go for this weekend's short camping drive of 25 miles. First time driving on Link #4 with Tires and Extra Sway Bar.

I look at a a WDH to be like a handle that pushes down on the whole TV on all four wheels. I think returning the front weight is great but not enough. Because the extra rear weight pushing the TV down in the rear unloads the front relative to the rear. So pushing a couple hundred pounds to the front wheels works better for me in the steering balance equation.
Shorter answer: I’d try five links before settling down.

If you to get to a scale again, can you get the weights without any WD spring bars? That will provide data to calculate actual TW.

Something seems off on the unhitched weights, unless that is with the whole family onboard and full of fuel.

My estimates are your TW is around 1150 pounds and TT weighs 8850 pounds loaded. I also believe you are exceeding the receiver, rear axle, and GVWR of the Expy.

For the first question: 4 links is as close as you should try to get as you have 100% font axle weight restored.