First time towing with the new van, not fun!

[The_LeRoys]

So I got to tow with our new van for the first time today. It was one of my worst experiences towing ever. The engine and transmission seemed to run great, but the steering was miserable.

To be fair, my hitch isn't adjusted quite right for the van, its still setup for our truck, but the hitch heights were similar so I figured I could drive it home as is then adjust. We have the equalizer hitch and it has been awesome on this camper and our previous one. It needs to add a bit more weight onto the front wheels. Its not off by much probably 1 hole, but I know its not perfect. THere was some weight on the bars but not a ton.

My tires are brand new Michelin LTX MS2 tires and my alignment was checked and really good. On the road not towing it goes pretty straight downt he road.

When the road was in good shape and straight it seemed to go along pretty well, not as good as my last truck but not unbearable. However as soon as I had to make one steering correction, I ended up having to make about a dozen more to get it straight again, with my tail wagging all over. When the road was uneven (construction zone) or in bad shape, I felt like I was all over the road. If a semi passed me on level ground, there wasn't any sway or pull really felt. BUt if they passed me on the uneven section, it was miserable. A curve in the road when it was uneven was about as bad as you could get. I just felt like I spent the entire time zigging from one side of the lane to the other trying to keep it straight the whole drive.

I wont get a chance to adjust the hitch and try again for probably a week, and we leave for our big trip in under 3, not leaving me much time to correct any issues.

Could not having the hitch perfect really cause me that much misery? Or are there other things I need to be considering? That hitch has been amazing on the same camper and other vehicles in the past.

I remember when we went from a 1/2 ton van in the past (on a different trailer) to a 3/4 ton suburban thinking the towing was night & day better. Is it just towing with a van that is different? Or should I be considering adding something? AntiSway bars to the front or rear axle of the truck? Steering system like Roadmaster?

Thoughts / Suggestions?

[LarryJM]

The LeRoys wrote:
3)Van same as above. Trailer level front to back, Hitch with all 8 washers, L brackets as high as they go (as much WD as can be enable)
Front Axle 3280 lbs
Rear Axle 5540 lbs
Approximate Tongue Weight 1320 lbs
Tongue Weight Percentage 13
Tongue Weight on Front Axle "negative 120lbs"
Camper Wheels 8800 lbs
Total Camper Weight 10120 lbs

4) Van same as above. Trailer one to two inches lower in front than rear, Hitch with all 8 washers, L brackets as high as they go (as much WD as can be enable)
Front Axle - 3380 lbs
Rear Axle - 5380 lbs
Approximate Tongue Weight 1260 lbs
Tongue Weight Percentage 12
Tongue Weight on Front Axle " negative 20lbs"
Camper Wheels 8840 lbs
Total Camper Weight 10100 lbs


5) Van without Trailer again .All the crew and most of our stuff, filled Gas tank
Front Axle 3400 lbs
Rear Axle 4100 lbs

6) Van same as number 5, trailer added some groceries. Trailer three to four inches lower in front than rear, Hitch with all 8 washers, L brackets as high as they go (as much WD as can be enable)
Front Axle 3340 lbs
Rear Axle 5720 lbs
Approximate Tongue Weight 1300 lbs
Tongue Weight Percentage 13
Tongue Weight on Front Axle "negative 80lbs"
Camper Wheels 8880 lbs
Total Camper Weight 10180 lbs

Something doesn't sound right I have an E-350 albiet with the diesel and use an Equal-i-zer 1.2/12K towing almost an 8K 32' trailer with a combined GCW of over 17K. I don't have the issues you're dealing with and just moving my "L" bracket 1 hole increases the transfer to the TT axles by 120lbs. I can't remember the exact number, but I have like 4 or 5 washers ... not the max for sure. Any chance you can post a few pics of your set up. My front/rear wt. are several hundred lbs more than yours, but the ratio is about the same. I'm typically at around 3600 on the front and 6000 on the rear of the Van.

As far as overhang goes I don't but that as a real issue since while mine in a reg. box I have an extra long drawbar and am 1/2 way to the overhand of the extended box vans.

I don't see how changing hitches as the above recommends will help unless you go high end like the HA or PP.

Larry

[dodge_guy]

Ditch the EQ and go with at minimum a Reese Dual Cam. Or step up to a HA or PP. the last 2 sets of numbers look good so it sounds like your hitch and TW are correct. The limiting factor is the long overhang of the van and the friction based EQ.

[The_LeRoys]

3)Van same as above. Trailer level front to back, Hitch with all 8 washers, L brackets as high as they go (as much WD as can be enable)
Front Axle 3280 lbs
Rear Axle 5540 lbs
Approximate Tongue Weight 1320 lbs
Tongue Weight Percentage 13
Tongue Weight on Front Axle "negative 120lbs"
Camper Wheels 8800 lbs
Total Camper Weight 10120 lbs

4) Van same as above. Trailer one to two inches lower in front than rear, Hitch with all 8 washers, L brackets as high as they go (as much WD as can be enable)
Front Axle - 3380 lbs
Rear Axle - 5380 lbs
Approximate Tongue Weight 1260 lbs
Tongue Weight Percentage 12
Tongue Weight on Front Axle " negative 20lbs"
Camper Wheels 8840 lbs
Total Camper Weight 10100 lbs


5) Van without Trailer again .All the crew and most of our stuff, filled Gas tank
Front Axle 3400 lbs
Rear Axle 4100 lbs

6) Van same as number 5, trailer added some groceries. Trailer three to four inches lower in front than rear, Hitch with all 8 washers, L brackets as high as they go (as much WD as can be enable)
Front Axle 3340 lbs
Rear Axle 5720 lbs
Approximate Tongue Weight 1300 lbs
Tongue Weight Percentage 13
Tongue Weight on Front Axle "negative 80lbs"
Camper Wheels 8880 lbs
Total Camper Weight 10180 lbs

[The_LeRoys]

2) Van same as above. Trailer level, Hitch with all 8 washers, L brackets even (same setup I towed with last year)
Front Axle 2920 lbs Rear Axle 6020 lbs
Approximate Tongue Weight 1440 lbs.
Tongue Weight Percentage 14
Tongue Weight on Front Axle "negative 480lbs"

[The_LeRoys]

1) Van without Trailer - All the crew and most of our stuff, no gas
Front Axle 3,400 lbs
Rear Axle 4,100 lbs

[The_LeRoys]

OK guys, really need help now, and I apologize for the VERY long post, but wanted to give all the details I could. I spent the last 4 hours at the truck stop weighing the van / camper and adjusting hitch, then test driving. No matter what I did, I couldn't get enough weight on the front of the van, not even close, though my tongue weight is so much better. The hitch is now set as high as it can go. As a reminder I have the 14K equalizer, as I will note the adjustments I made. I appreciate any feedback. Which setup is the most safe? I'm thinking #3 or maybe #4?

Driving doesn't seem as bad as last year, but still a bit uncomfortable.

EDIT: For some reason its was giving me a hard time posting everything as one so I had to break it up.

[atreis]

YES on the tongue.

You should be at 1,275 lbs - 1,593 lbs tongue weight. This won't just make a world of difference to towing comfort - where you are now is outright unsafe.

[mkirsch]

Not necessarily on the front axle, but YES YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES on the tongue weight.

Current best practice for WD hitch setup is to bring the front end back to NO MORE THAN unloaded ride height. Theoretically that will leave you very close to unloaded weight on your front axle.

Many newer vehicles come with the recommendation to only restore HALF WAY to the original ride height, which would mean your front axle would be lighter with the trailer hooked up, than not.

The reasoning behind it is that the front axle is already near capacity with the engine and passengers aboard. There isn't usually a whole lot of "wiggle room" for adding weight to the front end, while there's far more available on the rear.

In many cases also there is a rubber bump stop (aka "jounce bumper") in the front suspension on most pickup trucks that is engaged at unloaded ride height. Trying to compress the front end lower than unloaded ride height can overload the front suspension and cause damage, because you can just keep cranking and cranking on that WD hitch until something snaps, and the truck just will not go below unloaded ride height in front.

[dodge_guy]

To answer your question,
Yes and yes! You want approx 12% tongue weight, 1200-1300 lbs TW. And you want at least 400lbs of the tongue weight on the front axle.

[The_LeRoys]

For those who have asked, here are my weights that I towed with last summer. I will get this year's weight later in the week.

Van Specs:
GVWR - 9,200 lbs
GAWR Front - 4,410 lbs
GAWR Rear - 6,084 lbs

1) Loaded Van with no Trailer
Front Axle - 3,220 lbs (73% of GAWR)
Rear Axle - 3,920 lbs (64% of GAWR)
Total Van - 7,140 lbs (78% of GVWR)

2) Loaded Van with loaded trailer
Front Axle - 3,380 lbs (77% of GAWR)
Rear Axle - 4,740 lbs (78% of GAWR)
Total Van - 8,120 lbs (88% of GVWR)
Approximate Tongue Weight - 980 lbs
Tongue Weight Percentage - 9.2%
Camper Wheels - 9,640 lbs
Total Camper Weight - 10,620 lbs

Does it still seem like I need to put more weight on the front van axle? More on the tongue?

[The_LeRoys]

Got the power steering replaced at the end of last week. Went for an hour test drive tonight. Strong winds, rain, traffic, and trucks passing. I can't say it was as good as towing with my old Diesel truck. But it was about 100x better. A much less stressful experience. We're going to leave it like this for our next long trip (1000 miles) and see how it goes. If its not tolerable, we'll take one last step and get the caster angle adjusted. I will report back after our trip, as to how it performed.

[The_LeRoys]

Took it to a shop to have the alignment changes made this week for the caster angle. They test drove and didn't like steering before making them. Said they thought it needed a new steering box. So getting that swapped out first. Then test drive again.

[The_LeRoys]

edm3rd wrote:
One thing that was mentioned very early in this thread. New tires need about 500 miles to wear off the "mold release" used in the manufacturing process. Don't judge your Michelins until you have some more miles on them. I have noticed this on all Michelins I have installed, and Tire Rack also cautions about it.

Those tires have about 20,000 miles on them at this point, and saw no improvement after miles were added.

[The_LeRoys]

Took it for a test drive yesterday. It performed as bad as I remember, or possibly worse. Dreading the thought of a 1000 mile round trip in it. I had hopes that the combo of the springs and the dampener might make it a better experience.

I think I may give your adjustable castor bushings and have it re-aligned. I just had it aligned last week.

Or maybe I'll see about getting a 3/4 ton crew cab truck again. With 4 kids (10 and under) that would mean 2 would have to ride up front to keep the air bags turned off, and the wife would have to ride in the back seat.