GFCI Circuits

[bmupton]

So my outside receptacle, my main fridge and my little bar fridge in the outside kitchen are all on a GFCI circuit protected by the GFCI in the bathroom. This means that DW can't blow dry her hair reliably, because if either of the fridges are running they consume just enough amperage that her hair dryer puts the circuit over the top and pops the breaker.

I think the Norcold fridge uses about 2.5A and the little bar fridge uses about the same (I don't have a spec sheet for either) which really only leaves 7 or so Amps (It's a 12A breaker) for her hair dryer.

So I have three options:

1.) Get a low amperage or DC hair dryer (Any suggestions?) I do have a DC plug just outside the bathroom that could be used for a DC model hair dryer I think
2.) Figure out a way to run my fridges on an extension cord run back to the pedestal instead or running off the main shore power through the trailer plugs.
3.) Re-wire the two outside plugs to a separate breaker somehow (likely not really an option)

What would you do?

[wa8yxm]

Hot wire is when you SMELL melting insulation, or melting plastic, In this case due to the cheap *** way they make the outlets in the RV (Push down connectors or stab connectors (poke a wire in a hole( instead of screws you bend wire around) Cheap, fast to install and not anywhere near heavy duty enough to carry the rated 15 amps.

Only one outlet of the two we used did that. But I put in 15/20's for both, the third special outlet was done for other reasons.

Hot wire smell scares me cause I know what all too often follows (Visit from fire dept) If your nose is not detecting anything strange, They you do NOT have that problem.

bigred1cav wrote:
Please explain in laymans terms? Hot wire etc. Is this something I should have done?

wa8yxm wrote:
Whatever you do you want that hair dryer to be GFCI protected.. That's about all I have left to say.

on my motor home we use electric space heaters to save on propane... The park assesses us an "Electrical use" fee (Well the parent company does) so by Readdy Kilowatt we are going to use it! (there is a history here, not the first company to do that and the result has always improved my life).

Well, one of the outlets kind of gave me "hot wiring" alerts (I finally tore it down and still can't see as it's all that hot)

The result was 3 new outlets.. Two are 15/20 amp standard duplex (These have the "T" shaped neutral) fed with 12ga wire wrapped around a screw and well tightened, each has it's own breaker feeding it (one 15, one 20) and the 3rd is a special outlet (With matching adapter for the heater) that is kind of special. It is fed from OUTSIDE the Motor Home, as is the rear A/C (I never use both at one time) and there is no way to plug a standard plug into this special outlet. So i don't have to worry about traeling companion doing something rash.

[bigred1cav]

Please explain in laymans terms? Hot wire etc. Is this something I should have done?

wa8yxm wrote:
Whatever you do you want that hair dryer to be GFCI protected.. That's about all I have left to say.

on my motor home we use electric space heaters to save on propane... The park assesses us an "Electrical use" fee (Well the parent company does) so by Readdy Kilowatt we are going to use it! (there is a history here, not the first company to do that and the result has always improved my life).

Well, one of the outlets kind of gave me "hot wiring" alerts (I finally tore it down and still can't see as it's all that hot)

The result was 3 new outlets.. Two are 15/20 amp standard duplex (These have the "T" shaped neutral) fed with 12ga wire wrapped around a screw and well tightened, each has it's own breaker feeding it (one 15, one 20) and the 3rd is a special outlet (With matching adapter for the heater) that is kind of special. It is fed from OUTSIDE the Motor Home, as is the rear A/C (I never use both at one time) and there is no way to plug a standard plug into this special outlet. So i don't have to worry about traeling companion doing something rash.

[bmupton]

I've had those hot alerts myself in my old house before we moved. Built in 1923, electric added sometime after that (originally the house didn't even have an indoor bathroom)

Not a single grounded outlet in the place, let alone GFCI.

Long story short, it's not the greatest feeling in the world.

[pianotuna]

Hi wa8,

A tingling kind of alert was it?

[wa8yxm]

Whatever you do you want that hair dryer to be GFCI protected.. That's about all I have left to say.

on my motor home we use electric space heaters to save on propane... The park assesses us an "Electrical use" fee (Well the parent company does) so by Readdy Kilowatt we are going to use it! (there is a history here, not the first company to do that and the result has always improved my life).

Well, one of the outlets kind of gave me "hot wiring" alerts (I finally tore it down and still can't see as it's all that hot)

The result was 3 new outlets.. Two are 15/20 amp standard duplex (These have the "T" shaped neutral) fed with 12ga wire wrapped around a screw and well tightened, each has it's own breaker feeding it (one 15, one 20) and the 3rd is a special outlet (With matching adapter for the heater) that is kind of special. It is fed from OUTSIDE the Motor Home, as is the rear A/C (I never use both at one time) and there is no way to plug a standard plug into this special outlet. So i don't have to worry about traeling companion doing something rash.

[bmupton]

wa8yxm wrote:
I would "Split" the circuits... Frankly I do not know why some RV makers put the fridge on a GFCI, but let's not argue about that.

I would run a 2nd power line to either the fridge, or the patio, or the bathroom (Depending on which is easiest to do) if it's the bathroom put child protector caps in the CURRENT GFCI device and put a new one beside it also GFCI, Use glue on the caps so they don't come out..

If it's the Fridge or Patio that get the new feed..
IF the outlet is a pass through (Two sets of ROMEX) then join them properly and feed it with a GFCI breaker No need to even change the outlet, just put in a junction box to do the joining of the wires in.

if it is the end of the ran (only one Romex to the outlet) cut square and tape off the leads (Cut square means only the cross section of the wire is exposed) I like to screw a wire nut (Use one a size smaller than the wire) over the end and tape it on. And simply hook the new wire to the outlet.

Again use a GFCI breaker

Or you can use a regular breaker and put in a new GFCI outlet. This works best if it's the patio outlet.

Actually, running a third line from the panel to the bathroom or the front outside receptacle would probably be pretty easy, the panel shares a wall with the bathroom, and the outside receptacle is right there as well.

It would seem that they ran one breaker to the bathroom GFCI receptacle, and connected four receptacles on the outside of the trailer to that GFCI down the line. To answer why the put the fridge on a GFCI, it's because the receptacle itself is technically outside the trailer, so should be protected, even if it is behind the cover and not likely to get wet.

In thinking further, I think the simplest solution is likely the best: Find a hair dryer that has a decent blower motor that uses less power. In all honesty the only time this is an issue is when she blow dries her hair, other than that we've never tripped a breaker in the trailer.

All this still doesn't solve the other power problem I have: This trailer only has a 30A shore power cable. With all the connected equipment, it really should have had 50A service from factory. I can't even run the A/C and water heater on AC power at the same time. Those two loads alone are almost 30A, and if anything else is running at all, the main 30A pedestal breaker will trip.

[wa8yxm]

I would "Split" the circuits... Frankly I do not know why some RV makers put the fridge on a GFCI, but let's not argue about that.

I would run a 2nd power line to either the fridge, or the patio, or the bathroom (Depending on which is easiest to do) if it's the bathroom put child protector caps in the CURRENT GFCI device and put a new one beside it also GFCI, Use glue on the caps so they don't come out..

If it's the Fridge or Patio that get the new feed..
IF the outlet is a pass through (Two sets of ROMEX) then join them properly and feed it with a GFCI breaker No need to even change the outlet, just put in a junction box to do the joining of the wires in.

if it is the end of the ran (only one Romex to the outlet) cut square and tape off the leads (Cut square means only the cross section of the wire is exposed) I like to screw a wire nut (Use one a size smaller than the wire) over the end and tape it on. And simply hook the new wire to the outlet.

Again use a GFCI breaker

Or you can use a regular breaker and put in a new GFCI outlet. This works best if it's the patio outlet.

[bmupton]

big bird 2 wrote:
Don't tell anyone, but some of the GFCI units from China have been faulty. This is not new, but not general information. Just after I purchased my RV and complained to the dealer I was asked to bring it in and all four of my GFCI units were replaced. This may not be your problem, but it is a place to start!

I think the GFCI is fine, it's not tripping. The breaker is, meaning I'm obviously consuming more than the available amperage for that breaker. Unless a bad GFCI can itself cause a breaker to trip. One thing is it takes a few seconds of running the hair dryer before it trips, and it doesn't do it all the time, only sometimes. I think the times it trips must be when either fridge is running at the same time.

Water-Bug wrote:
Determine the time that the DW is most apt to dry her hair. Put the fridge on a timer that turns it off for a 2 hour period during the hair drying period. The only problem will be that it will be a PITA to reset the timer, every time that you interupt AC power.

EDIT. Powering the outside fridge off of a non-GFCI circuit or extension cord is probably a violation of code. If you don't care about code, just replace the GFCI with a regular plug. Homes with electricity, were built without GFCIs fot for over 60 years.

You can get timers with a battery backup...that's actually a fairly acceptable compromise. That would work for the outside fridge at least.

The receptacle on the pedestal is a GFCI, but I don't know the code on running an extension cord. Either way, I'm not opposed to that, I do it at home with my old fridge out in the garage when I need a little extra fridge space. Doing it at the RV is no different.

smkettner wrote:
How about use the hair drier on something less than maximum heat?

This particular hair dryer's low setting is useless. I know the one she uses at home the blower motor moves the same amount of air regardless of the heat setting, but this one the blower slows down to the point of being useless when on low. Perhaps a new hair dryer with a better low setting would be the best alternative. Problem is, I still have a situtaion where that circuit is being overloadedat times due to the sheer number of outlets they put on it and the other things I have connected.

bigred1cav wrote:
Take her a 10 mile ride and have her stick her head outside the vehicle the air will dry her hair.

This is the obvious answer, but when I suggested it she flatly refused. She then mumbled something about me sleeping outside if I continued with that attitude. Some people have no sense of humor.


My other thought was to see if the receptacle in the bunkhouse opposite the outside kitchen was on the other circuit, and if it is, re-wire the outside kitchen receptacle to that circuit and replace it with a GFCI plug to feed the outside fridge. I also just realized that I have an ice maker plugged in to another outlet in the outside kitchen that's likely on that same circuit protected by that single GFCI in the bathroom.

I think with a little bit of intelligent load management this problem should be solvable.

[bigred1cav]

Take her a 10 mile ride and have her stick her head outside the vehicle the air will dry her hair.

[ScottG]

big bird 2 wrote:
Don't tell anyone, but some of the GFCI units from China have been faulty. This is not new, but not general information. Just after I purchased my RV and complained to the dealer I was asked to bring it in and all four of my GFCI units were replaced. This may not be your problem, but it is a place to start!

I know alot of them are junk but in this case it's the breaker tripping and not the GFCI. When GFCI's are bad they trip themselves but not the breaker.

[time2roll]

How about use the hair drier on something less than maximum heat?

[D___M]

Never mind. Misread the post.

[Water-Bug]

Determine the time that the DW is most apt to dry her hair. Put the fridge on a timer that turns it off for a 2 hour period during the hair drying period. The only problem will be that it will be a PITA to reset the timer, every time that you interupt AC power.

EDIT. Powering the outside fridge off of a non-GFCI circuit or extension cord is probably a violation of code. If you don't care about code, just replace the GFCI with a regular plug. Homes with electricity, were built without GFCIs fot for over 60 years.

[big_bird_2]

Don't tell anyone, but some of the GFCI units from China have been faulty. This is not new, but not general information. Just after I purchased my RV and complained to the dealer I was asked to bring it in and all four of my GFCI units were replaced. This may not be your problem, but it is a place to start!