gvwr, curb weight and payload

[sam22]

Hey everyone, I know there have been quiet a few posts about things related to payload and weights and everything, it I couldn't quiet find my answer when I was searching. So, hopefully somebody can straighten something out for me. I do apologize if something very similar to this has come up.

From what I understand my vehicles payload capacity is the GVWR minus the curb weight of the vehicle...right?

Well I have a Jepp Grand Cherokee, and while I don't know the exact weight of my particular vehicle, ill assume it's the heaviest Grand Cherokee you can get, which according to Jeep is 5393 lbs. The GVWR rating is 6800lbs. So, if payload is the GVRW minus the curb weight, shouldn't the payload of the heaviest Grand Cherokee be 1407 lbs? Jeep lists the payload as only 1050lbs, which is way less.

So, am I missing some or doing something wrong or am I right to find this a little confusing?

Thanks for the help!

[Walaby]

Since OP obviously has experience towing (see his pic in his sig), Im assuming he's asking his question because he's trying to figure out if he can exceed what the sticker says his payload is, as opposed to going by what the sticker says.

So, my comment about going with what he is comfortable with assumes he does not want to go by the sticker on the car. If one is not sure, then one should go by the manufacturers numbers.

Mike

[JIMNLIN]

We have no idea why a vehicle maker comes up with numbers like GVWR/FAWR/RAWR/GCWR/CCC/Payload based on a gvwr/tow ratings/etc.
Some (not all) 4x4 pickups have higher payloads than a same 2wd truck.

I would say with out actual mechanical specs to look at for each vehicle it would be just a guess to assume the two vehicles in question are the same or different.
Exception is Fleet Ford specs that has the actual different specs for the F150....F250....F350 SRW ... F350 DRW pickups. Ram and GM mechanical specs aren't that easy for the lay person to find.

[drsteve]

Allow me to add to the confusion... Jeep rates the payload of a 4x4 GC as being greater than that of the 2wd version, which is odd, because obviously a 4x4 is a heavier vehicle, all other options/equipment being equal. Jeep towing/payload table can be viewed here

Discussion?

[mkirsch]

Going with what you're comfortable with is fine and dandy, but what if you don't know what you're comfortable with, because you've never done it before?

People who know what they're comfortable with do not come to this forum to ask weight questions or how much they should tow with a specific vehicle.

Some people are comfortable towing right at the ratings. Some people are comfortable towing way over the ratings. Some people are not comfortable unless they are way under the ratings. All three of these types are telling rookies that the way they do it is the right way to do it and the only way to do it. THAT is confusing.

[sam22]

Walaby wrote:
Might come across as sarcastic, but not really meant to be. If going by the sticker and numbers particular to your vehicle (as published by manufacturer) don't make sense to you, then go with what you feel comfortable with.

You're doing a lot of guessing, so why not go find a scale and weigh your GC. Take some of the guess work out.

Old Biscuit gave the best answer to your immediate question.

Mike

I plan on it, but I don't think knowing exact weights will do anything to explain why the numbers jeep gives for payload are so confusing.

[AMG1978]

Please answer this one for me.

2011-2016 Ford F-250 SRW crewab has an absolute maximum GVWR of 10,000. Payload stickers ranging from about 1800-2400 depending on options/features (4x4,etc.)
2011-2016 Ford F-350 SRW crewcab has a GVWR ranging from 10,700 to 11,500. Payload stickers ranging from about 2600-3400 give or take, same idea...

Both trucks are basically identical other than the sticker in the door and the badge on the side. Same axles, Same differentials, Same wheels, Same bearings, Same EVERYTHING except a 1" taller block in the rear. Same overload spring, same leafs, tires etc.

It is said that while you can never exceed the payload sticker, that the sticker isnt TRULY indicative of what Ford knows the truck can do. It simply must not exceed 10,000 because in many states that can constitute a commercial vehicle and charges for insurance and licensing can be handled differently.

So I'd say that while you should never exceed the payload sticker, in the case of the F-250, as far as *true* safety goes; the truck can handle more weight without concern. My $0.02 and I know for most other vehicles like SUV's, cars, etc. this kind of situation would not apply.

[Walaby]

Might come across as sarcastic, but not really meant to be. If going by the sticker and numbers particular to your vehicle (as published by manufacturer) don't make sense to you, then go with what you feel comfortable with.

You're doing a lot of guessing, so why not go find a scale and weigh your GC. Take some of the guess work out.

Old Biscuit gave the best answer to your immediate question.

Mike

[sam22]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
Payload is NOT GVWR minus UVW because no way to load a vehicle front to back with all weight spread equally across both axles.

According to JEEP:
Curb weight includes standard equipment and full quantities
of fuel, lubricant and coolant.
Payload is the maximum allowable weight of driver, passengers, cargo, and options, rounded to the nearest 10 lbs

Actual payload MUST take in account RAWR & Rear Tire Max Load Ratings

See pg. 10 of this 2016 JEEP Grand Cherokee spec
2016 JEEP Specifications

Okay, thanks for the help. I'm still finding these numbers don't add up though. I don't know exactly what my vehicle weighs, it's a GC limited and that is suppose to weigh 5135 but Im assuming mine weighs more because it has several options that came extra. So, I'm using the weight of the Overland trim level as my guide since it's the heaviest and a few of the heavier options I have, like the panoramic sunroof, come standard on the Overland. Obviously I need to weigh it, but in the mean time I'll just use these assumptions.

The rear axle is rated for 3700lbs and the front is 3200lbs, so in total that exceeds the GVWR of 6800lbs. I haven't weighed the vehicle so I don't know how much is on the rear axle, but I'm guessing of the 5250lbs the car weighs that about 2500 is on the rear axle, which gives me 1200lbs of extra weight and about 400lbs on the front axle. So, I'm still not figuring out where that 1050lbs of payload comes from when the GVWR is 1400lbs higher than the dry vehicle weight and the axles can handle that weight. Each Tire is rate for over 2000lbs so I don't see an issue there either. The lightest V8 GC model weighs 5135lbs, so 115lbs lighter than the heaviest (which, I'm assuming mine is), but it has a payload rating that is 140lbs higher. They both have the same axles and same GVWR. The GC summit actually weighs 30 lbs less than the heavier Overland, but has 100lbs less of payload despite having the same axles and GVWR. It doesn't make any sense to me!

Thanks for trying to help!

[Grit_dog]

LarryJM wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

At that, imagine the factors of safety designed into the vehicle components and don't obsess about a few......hundred lbs here or there.

IMO that is a VERY DANGEROUS ASSUMPTION. There are probably actual safety related design margins, but there are much more items like say drive shaft spline strength, u-joints, on and on that don't have the level of design margin built in that you are assuming.

Just your undefined "FEW HUNDRED LBS" can mean 100 to maybe 500/600 depending on an individuals definition which is totally SUBJECTIVE.

A couple of prime examples is the original cooling system for the 7.3L and the 4R100 tranny/TC system for the 7.3L. One requires a retro fit and the other is a well know "WEAK LINK" in the drivetrain. Neither of these IMO would classify as "SAFETY RELATED", but sure would ruin your day and cost a $$$$$$ if you ignored them or exceeded their original design concept/usage.

Larry

Well, I'm trying to be more of a weight cop, but apparently still not a good enough one, lol.
I'm not advocating loading a pallet of bricks in the rear hatch, rather offering that with a relatively new GC or any capable vehicle, much time spent worrying about the equivalent of luggage or a couple extra passengers won't be worth the worry.

[Old-Biscuit]

Payload is NOT GVWR minus UVW because no way to load a vehicle front to back with all weight spread equally across both axles.

According to JEEP:
Curb weight includes standard equipment and full quantities
of fuel, lubricant and coolant.
Payload is the maximum allowable weight of driver, passengers, cargo, and options, rounded to the nearest 10 lbs

Actual payload MUST take in account RAWR & Rear Tire Max Load Ratings

See pg. 10 of this 2016 JEEP Grand Cherokee spec
2016 JEEP Specifications

[LarryJM]

Grit dog wrote:

At that, imagine the factors of safety designed into the vehicle components and don't obsess about a few......hundred lbs here or there.

IMO that is a VERY DANGEROUS ASSUMPTION. There are probably actual safety related design margins, but there are much more items like say drive shaft spline strength, u-joints, on and on that don't have the level of design margin built in that you are assuming.

Just your undefined "FEW HUNDRED LBS" can mean 100 to maybe 500/600 depending on an individuals definition which is totally SUBJECTIVE.

A couple of prime examples is the original cooling system for the 7.3L and the 4R100 tranny/TC system for the 7.3L. One requires a retro fit and the other is a well know "WEAK LINK" in the drivetrain. Neither of these IMO would classify as "SAFETY RELATED", but sure would ruin your day and cost a $$$$$$ if you ignored them or exceeded their original design concept/usage.

Larry

[Grit_dog]

Don't spend your time worrying about why your calcs don't match up exactly to the OE payload rating. It's not a big deal and you may never figure out the discrepancy.
By the rating, 4 large adults and a big dog in the back would overload it. Does that seem plausible?
Worry about tow rating and rear axle rating (assuming you're worried about your trailer weight and not just a hypothetical question).
At that, imagine the factors of safety designed into the vehicle components and don't obsess about a few......hundred lbs here or there.

[Bedlam]

I see the GC with a payload of 1050-1350 lbs with a tow rating of 6200-7400 lbs based on configuration when visiting the US site and looking at the tow ratings section for Jeeps.

[sam22]

I guess I'm just not understanding why there is such a drastic difference between the listed payload and the gvwr mins the curb weight. According to jeep the heaviest a Grand Cherokee can be without a person or stuff is 5393. That's the weight of the heaviest model with all the options and extras. So, why isn't the payload for that car 1400lbs?