hmmm...Info for CDN's heading into the US

[garyhaupt]

I find this to be huge concern. We don't carry a bunch of cash, but still..cameras and so on, could lead an officer to see the value in those items. And of course...I don't really know if I have what it takes to refuse a 'request to search' without a warrant. I do at home, but when away...? I just don't know.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/american-shakedown-police-won-t-charge-you-but-they-ll-grab-your-money-...


On its official website, the Canadian government informs its citizens that “there is no limit to the amount of money that you may legally take into or out of the United States.” Nonetheless, it adds, banking in the U.S. can be difficult for non-residents, so Canadians shouldn’t carry large amounts of cash.

That last bit is excellent advice, but for an entirely different reason than the one Ottawa cites.

There’s a shakedown going on in the U.S., and the perps are in uniform.

Across America, law enforcement officers — from federal agents to state troopers right down to sheriffs in one-street backwaters — are operating a vast, co-ordinated scheme to grab as much of the public’s cash as they can; “hand over fist,” to use the words of one police trainer.

Roadside seizure

It usually starts on the road somewhere. An officer pulls you over for some minor infraction — changing lanes without proper signalling, following the car ahead too closely, straddling lanes. The offence is irrelevant.

Then the police officer wants to chat, asking questions about where you’re going, or where you came from, and why. He’ll peer into your car, then perhaps ask permission to search it, citing the need for vigilance against terrorist weaponry or drugs.

What he’s really looking for, though, is money.

'Authorities claim it’s legal, but some prosecutors and judges have called it what it is: abuse. In any case, it’s a nasty American reality.'

And if you were foolish (or intimidated) enough to have consented to the search, and you’re carrying any significant amount of cash, you are now likely to lose it.

The officer will probably produce a waiver, saying that if you just sign over the money then the whole matter will just disappear, and you’ll be able to go on your way.

Refuse to sign it, and he may take the cash anyway, proclaiming it the probable proceeds of drugs or some other crime.

Either way, you almost certainly won’t be charged with anything; the objective is to take your money, not burden the system.

You’ll have the right to seek its return in court, but of course that will mean big lawyer’s fees, and legally documenting exactly where the money came from. You will need to prove you are not a drug dealer or a terrorist.

It might take a year or two. And several trips back to the jurisdiction where you were pulled over. Sorry.

In places like Tijuana, police don’t make any pretense about this sort of thing. Here in the U.S., though, it’s dressed up in terms like “interdiction and forfeiture,” or “the equitable sharing program.”

Authorities claim it’s legal, but some prosecutors and judges have called it what it is: abuse.

In any case, it’s a nasty American reality.

Powers and justifications

Seizing suspected drug money has been legal here for decades, but after 9/11 police acquired a whole new set of powers and justifications. And they set about using them for profit.

'The Washington Post this week reported that in the past 13 years, there have been 61,998 cash seizures on roadways and elsewhere without use of search warrants. The total haul: $2.5 billion.'

The Washington Post this week reported that in the past 13 years, there have been 61,998 cash seizures on roadways and elsewhere without use of search warrants.

The total haul: $2.5 billion, divided pretty much equally between the U.S. government and state and local authorities (hence the Kafkaesque “equitable sharing” euphemism).

Half of the seizures, according to the Post, were below $8,800. Only a sixth of those who had money taken from them pursued its return.

Some, no doubt, were indeed drug dealers or money launderers and just walked away from the money. Others just couldn’t spare the expense and time of going to court.

Of those who did, though, nearly half got their money back, a statistic that fairly screams about the legitimacy of the seizures.

So does another fact: In many cases, authorities offer half the money back – money they’d claimed was proceeds of crime. And when they do issue a cheque, they almost always insist their victim sign a legal release promising never to sue.

It would also appear police like to target minorities, who tend to be cooperative and less likely to hire a lawyer.

Civil rights advocates have documented all sorts of outright legal theft:

The (minority) businessman from Georgia who was relieved of $75,000 he’d raised from relatives to buy a restaurant in Louisiana.
The (minority) church leaders who were carrying nearly $30,000 from their Baltimore parishioners to carry out church activities in North Carolina and El Salvador.
The young college grad with no criminal record on his way to a job interview out West who was relieved of $2,500 lent to him by his dad for the trip.

News outlets here have reported many such abuses over the years. But the Washington Post’s latest investigation exposes money-grabbing as big business.

It involves a nationwide network of enforcement agencies (except in the few states that have banned it) that operates with the help of a vast private intelligence service called “Black Asphalt” (police forces pay an enrolment fee of $19.95). The network uses consultants and trainers who either charge fees or operate on contingency, keeping a percentage of cash seized by their police pupils.

Police forces use the money to finance their departmental budgets, sometimes spending it on luxury vehicles, first-class tickets to conferences, and lavish quarters. They regard the money as rightfully theirs. One prosecutor used seized cash to defend herself against a lawsuit brought by people whose cash she seized.

It’s just human nature, really.

Give police the legal ability to take someone’s money, and to claim it’s in the national interest, and then tell them they can keep a nice chunk of it, and what other result could there be?

Travel advice

So, for any law-abiding Canadian thinking about an American road trip, here’s some non-official advice:

Avoid long chats if you’re pulled over. Answer questions politely and concisely, then persistently ask if you are free to go.

Don’t leave litter on the vehicle floor, especially energy drink cans.

Don’t use air or breath fresheners; they could be interpreted as an attempt to mask the smell of drugs.

Don’t be too talkative. Don’t be too quiet. Try not to wear expensive designer clothes. Don’t have tinted windows.

And for heaven’s sake, don’t consent to a search if you are carrying a big roll of legitimate cash.

As the Canadian government notes, there is no law against carrying it here or any legal limit on how much you can carry. But if you’re on an American roadway with a full wallet, in the eyes of thousands of cash-hungry cops you’re a rolling ATM.

[beemerphile1]

DSDP Don wrote:
...please show me one case where ma and pa were driving their motor home and had their money seized....

Not a MH but aren't the two men carrying money for church use evidence enough of out of control gendarmes? They got the money back but had to fight for it.

Tourists whether out of country or out of state are always at a disadvantage. LEOs know that they are much less likely to travel hundreds/thousands of miles back for a court appearance.

[beemerphile1]

8iron wrote:

What kcmoedoe refuses to understand is...This is not about a big scoop from "some no account Canadian journalists poorly researched story". He is trying to minimize this as a "Canadian thing". Keep burying you head in the sand.

Not buried in the sand, I fear it is far worse than you realize. kcmoedoe has already drunk the kool-aid, it is too late for reasoning. :B

[nightshift]

TXiceman wrote:

nightshift wrote:


Oh boy. The children are in the debate now. :R

No children here. We lived in Toronto for two years and the Canadians are great people. But if you do not feel comfortable, it is best to not come to the US.

We do not feel comfortable going to Mexico or close to the border, so we do not go. And I am sure that no one there will miss us.

I have not seen or heard of any groups targeting just the Canadians. I am sure that there are less than honest people in public service and will target foreigners and even people from out of state.

I do wish that we did not have crooks in every walk of life, but we do. All you can do is be vigilant and not associate with this type of person.

No, iceman, I was right the first time. Please re-read Gary's post.
He is commenting on the violation of all citizen's rights by police officers in the USA.

[DSDP_Don]

Okay....I'll revise my statement from earlier in this post. This was happening in the past for the purposes of seizing drug money, but this is something new.

After typing my earlier post, I went to dinner with my brother who was visiting from the west coast and who works in D.C. He brought this issue up out of the blue. Apparently, from what he has discovered, the Feds have some new rule that allows seizure of cash as a criminal deterrent. There is suppose to be some big expose about this new seizing of cash on TV soon.

I will tell you as a prior LEO, police officers ruin most TOOLS (laws given to them to arrest criminals) by pressing the limits of the law. After they step over the edge, the courts have to reel them back in and revise their rulings. I see this as the same thing. They've abused a TOOL given to them and they will be reigned in. Usually a law suit or court decision will create Case Law that will end the problem.

Now, with all that said, please show me one case where ma and pa were driving their motor home and had their money seized. I will also say as I said before, the news often reports that an altar boy had his money stolen, because everyone he knows says he's a great guy. Look at recent cases of police shootings where the suspect was an "angel", but their gun slinging dope smoking life is not allowed to be shown in court because it would be prejudicial.

[8iron]

kcmoedoe wrote:

Vulcaneer wrote:
I don't care about the story or whether or not it's true. But the rudeness from some Americans toward Canadians is UNFORGIVABLE. I am ashamed to say you people are AMERICANS. What is wrong with you people?

The USA is in North America. Canada is in North America. We are all AMERICANS. Maybe some don't like that fact. But I do. And I am proud to call Canada our neighbor.

I don't like everybody from Canada all the time. And with these UNWELCOMING posts, I don't like everyone from the USA all the time either. Nor do they like me. But we don't need to treat people that way.

And to our Canadian friends, I apologize for the actions of others from the USA. You are all welcomed here any time you want to come here. And other than the few posters here. There are about 299,999,989 others that welcome you here too.

Maybe you didn't notice it was Canadians that were slamming our law enforcement and legal system. They have no problem painting ALL the great US law enforcement officers with the broad brush of corruption based on some no account Canadian Journalist's poorly researched story. A story that is filled with rumors, innuendos, half truths and missing a whole lot of documentation. So I will say it again, if your fear of US law enforcement is so great, just save yourself the stress and anxiety and stay in the safe cocoon that is your mother country. Because we all know that throughout the entire recorded history of Canada there has never, ever been an arrest, seizure of assets or other act by law enforcement that hasn't been completely justified. (though a quick Google search for "RCMP officer convicted" brings up range of officers convicted of drug offenses, assault, sexual crimes and murder. But they can't possibly be true, since there is no crime or corruption in Canada).

What kcmoedoe refuses to understand is that the CBC story posted by the op mirrors those published in the Washington Post, NY Times, Forbes mag, Chicago Tribune, CNN, etc. This is not about a big scoop from "some no account Canadian journalists poorly researched story". He is trying to minimize this as a "Canadian thing". Keep burying you head in the sand.

[Vulcaneer]

I don't care about the story or whether or not it's true. But the rudeness from some Americans toward Canadians is UNFORGIVABLE. I am ashamed to say you people are AMERICANS. What is wrong with you people?

The USA is in North America. Canada is in North America. We are all AMERICANS. Maybe some don't like that fact. But I do. And I am proud to call Canada our neighbor.

I don't like everybody from Canada all the time. And with these UNWELCOMING posts, I don't like everyone from the USA all the time either. Nor do they like me. But we don't need to treat people that way.

And to our Canadian friends, I apologize for the actions of others from the USA. You are all welcomed here any time you want to come here. And other than the few posters here. There are about 299,999,989 others that welcome you here too.

[westend]

Well, it's a flammatory story and if something was posted about Canada seizing property, there might be some of the same directed the other way.

Undeclared cash seized at border

Most folks would know that an intervention with law enforcement and possessing large amounts of cash is going to net a sticky situation.
Are you having any problems while on your stay in Montana?

[rickeoni]

kcmoedoe wrote:
Easy solution, Stay the frick in Canada!!! Then your government can eat away at your money one tax and one Gallon (or should I say liter) of fuel at a time.

Thanks for sharing your smog-like intellect.

[garyhaupt]

I wonder what it is about this story that brings the nasty knee jerk reactions? No one talks like this if the story is about Mexico or other countries, but when it is home....out come the ugly comments.

The fact is..it IS happening in some places in the US. There is no doubt as to the veracity of that info. You may not like it, or be proud of it, but being mean spirited just ignites a whole other conversation.

And...just to be uuhhmmm....whatever...I am currently enjoying myself on a ranch in Montana and will soon be in Wyoming. I am not suggesting that coming to the US was a bad idea, I was simply offering up the info.


Gary Haupt

[kcmoedoe]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

From the links it is clear that it is not just Canadians who are being "taken for a ride". I'm sure the vast majority of the funds confiscated belong to law abiding citizens of USA.

kcmoedoe does that mean you will take your own suggestion to stay at home and no longer grace the highways with your RV?

It makes me sad that this sort of skullduggery is going on.

If you did your research, you would find that it is not "skullduggery" that is afoot, it is crime and criminal behavior that is leading to these seizures. Like I recently posted, it is too easy to leave out the rest of the story. Sell drugs from your parents home and get a 60 day suspended sentence, no big whoop. Sell drugs from your parents home and they lose their house, maybe you will think twice. If you are the parents, maybe you keep a little closer eye on what is happening on your property. The laws have a place because even if you are not criminally liable, you stand to lose big time through civil forfeiture if you don't keep control over what happens on your property, which isn't a bad thing in my opinion.

[John___Angela]

Thanks for posting the link to the article Gary. When travelling in any foreign country it is always best to be over informed than under informed. Athough I suspect some of it is overblown or out of context if there is any truth to it it never hurts to have information on scuttlebutt in foreign countries. When we are RVing in foreign countries like the US or Mexico we try to read the news a bit for the places we will be going. Always a good idea.

I am surprised at some of the rude comments or invitations to stay away by some posters to a guy like Gary who just posted an article. We find most Americans to be more polite than this. Interesting.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

From the links it is clear that it is not just Canadians who are being "taken for a ride". I'm sure the vast majority of the funds confiscated belong to law abiding citizens of USA.

kcmoedoe does that mean you will take your own suggestion to stay at home and no longer grace the highways with your RV?

It makes me sad that this sort of skullduggery is going on.

[8iron]

Its not so much blindly believing the story...I didn't give it any credit the 1st time I read it but similar stories by the WSJ, Washington Post, Forbes mag, Chicago Trib, New Yorker etc. give it some credibility and legs.

[beemerphile1]

garyhaupt wrote:
I'm the O.P. and I didn't say I was reporting a theory, I was simply copy/pasting a news story from the CBC, along with the actual link to it. And, from what people have posted as a result, it is obvious that is does happen. There are many trustworthy reported stories of this in the US.

Don't yell at someone that posts the info, yell at an department that allows such things.


Gary Haupt

From the responses it seems that many posters haven't read the article.

For those that haven't, there are case examples including named defendants who were law abiding citizens and had their money stolen by the gendarmes.

Like I posted earlier, at one time it was so bad along the I-10 corridor that travel agents were telling tourists to avoid the route between Texas and Florida and to go further north.

For those that would stoop so low as to make this a Canada vs. USA thing, shame on you. Why would you want to make rude comments toward a country that is an excellent neighbor? There is ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFICATION to insult the forum members that are citizens of Canada.