If you bought your RV on payments from General RV.

[garyhaupt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8s2dnbYaWo


Gary Haupt

[1492]

I would think that with a loan applications, it would likely be transmitted interstate at some point by electronic means: fax, email, or through the internet to a bank or credit union. If there was fraud involved in altering a contract after the fact without buyer's consent, then that could constitute wire fraud which is a federal crime.

I would contact the Justice Dept. (FBI), especially if similar issues have occurred to multiple buyers.

[time2roll]

mich800 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Ok people. The numbers (payments months) were changed after the people signed. They signed for 240 months and then after the customer left they changed it to 120 months with a balloon payment after the 120 months. To me it sounds like a salesman and the finance guy had something going. Not sure if General RV is involved, but they cut their own throat when they said “we didn’t do anything wrong”! Sorry, but your name is at the top of the paper work, so you definitely have a big part in it. Hopefully General RV steps up and figures it out and makes it right for their customers.

It looks like the contract was altered after it was executed. I am just confused on the end game. Are these cases where the finance department could not get approval without a big balloon payment? Maybe a bigger kick back if it is not a straight amortizing loan. Just curious what the motive was.

10 yr money comes at a lower rate than 20 year money. Not at all uncommon to make payments on a 20 year rate but a 10 year due date to get a lower rate. I see this all the time. Not as a deception but something agreed by both parties looking out for their own best interests. No contract was shown in the original video so I assume the customer was not fully understanding what was signed. If the contract was materially changed, the RV should have been returned immediately. Customer can refinance any time they please on most of these contracts.

[steveh27]

TurnThePage wrote:
Because that's a copy. They signed an original that did NOT say that. It was modified after the fact. Then they received their copy. Who looks at the copies after the fact?

If that is what happened then there is fraud.

[TurnThePage]

Because that's a copy. They signed an original that did NOT say that. It was modified after the fact. Then they received their copy. Who looks at the copies after the fact?

[steveh27]

mich800 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

steveh27 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Ok people. The numbers (payments months) were changed after the people signed. They signed for 240 months and then after the customer left they changed it to 120 months with a balloon payment after the 120 months. To me it sounds like a salesman and the finance guy had something going. Not sure if General RV is involved, but they cut their own throat when they said “we didn’t do anything wrong”! Sorry, but your name is at the top of the paper work, so you definitely have a big part in it. Hopefully General RV steps up and figures it out and makes it right for their customers.

It looks like the contract was altered after it was executed. I am just confused on the end game. Are these cases where the finance department could not get approval without a big balloon payment? Maybe a bigger kick back if it is not a straight amortizing loan. Just curious what the motive was.

Are you sure it was altered? The customer's copies show the 119 and 1 payment. Indeed it is stamped over the 240, but why didn't the customers question this?

Like I said they changed it after they signed. So they never went back and checked.

Correct, you can see the original and then the typed over change on the carbonless copy.

But the owners have the copy with the 119 and 1 balloon payment shown. EVen though they are stamped over the 240 they show the amounts for the balloon payment. Why wouldn't the buyers question this before taking the rv?

[mich800]

dodge guy wrote:

steveh27 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Ok people. The numbers (payments months) were changed after the people signed. They signed for 240 months and then after the customer left they changed it to 120 months with a balloon payment after the 120 months. To me it sounds like a salesman and the finance guy had something going. Not sure if General RV is involved, but they cut their own throat when they said “we didn’t do anything wrong”! Sorry, but your name is at the top of the paper work, so you definitely have a big part in it. Hopefully General RV steps up and figures it out and makes it right for their customers.

It looks like the contract was altered after it was executed. I am just confused on the end game. Are these cases where the finance department could not get approval without a big balloon payment? Maybe a bigger kick back if it is not a straight amortizing loan. Just curious what the motive was.

Are you sure it was altered? The customer's copies show the 119 and 1 payment. Indeed it is stamped over the 240, but why didn't the customers question this?

Like I said they changed it after they signed. So they never went back and checked.

Correct, you can see the original and then the typed over change on the carbonless copy.

[dodge_guy]

steveh27 wrote:

mich800 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Ok people. The numbers (payments months) were changed after the people signed. They signed for 240 months and then after the customer left they changed it to 120 months with a balloon payment after the 120 months. To me it sounds like a salesman and the finance guy had something going. Not sure if General RV is involved, but they cut their own throat when they said “we didn’t do anything wrong”! Sorry, but your name is at the top of the paper work, so you definitely have a big part in it. Hopefully General RV steps up and figures it out and makes it right for their customers.

It looks like the contract was altered after it was executed. I am just confused on the end game. Are these cases where the finance department could not get approval without a big balloon payment? Maybe a bigger kick back if it is not a straight amortizing loan. Just curious what the motive was.

Are you sure it was altered? The customer's copies show the 119 and 1 payment. Indeed it is stamped over the 240, but why didn't the customers question this?

Like I said they changed it after they signed. So they never went back and checked.

[steveh27]

mich800 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Ok people. The numbers (payments months) were changed after the people signed. They signed for 240 months and then after the customer left they changed it to 120 months with a balloon payment after the 120 months. To me it sounds like a salesman and the finance guy had something going. Not sure if General RV is involved, but they cut their own throat when they said “we didn’t do anything wrong”! Sorry, but your name is at the top of the paper work, so you definitely have a big part in it. Hopefully General RV steps up and figures it out and makes it right for their customers.

It looks like the contract was altered after it was executed. I am just confused on the end game. Are these cases where the finance department could not get approval without a big balloon payment? Maybe a bigger kick back if it is not a straight amortizing loan. Just curious what the motive was.

Are you sure it was altered? The customer's copies show the 119 and 1 payment. Indeed it is stamped over the 240, but why didn't the customers question this?

[mich800]

dodge guy wrote:
Ok people. The numbers (payments months) were changed after the people signed. They signed for 240 months and then after the customer left they changed it to 120 months with a balloon payment after the 120 months. To me it sounds like a salesman and the finance guy had something going. Not sure if General RV is involved, but they cut their own throat when they said “we didn’t do anything wrong”! Sorry, but your name is at the top of the paper work, so you definitely have a big part in it. Hopefully General RV steps up and figures it out and makes it right for their customers.

It looks like the contract was altered after it was executed. I am just confused on the end game. Are these cases where the finance department could not get approval without a big balloon payment? Maybe a bigger kick back if it is not a straight amortizing loan. Just curious what the motive was.

[T18skyguy]

The crime they are committing is forgery/fraud, and I hope they throw the book at them. I think they figured by the time the buyer discovered the balloon payment they would be long gone and out of reach of the law.

[BadgerMcAdams]

From one of the YouTube channels I follow...The guy is Steve Lehto and he is a lawyer in Michigan who covers lemon law an consumer protection cases.

This is his video covering this topic.

State Investigates Fraud Claims Against Huge RV Dealer - Ep. 7.460

It is interesting that in all the cases (that he spoke about in the video), All of them had these "smudges" where important information (i.e. What you owe) should be located and how the numbers didn't add up.

Can't wait to see what the final outcome will be when this is all said and done...

[dodge_guy]

JoeH wrote:
same thing is under investigation for Tampa branch.

I haven’t come across that one yet! I’ll have to look for it.

[JoeH]

same thing is under investigation for Tampa branch.

[TurnThePage]

Yes, pretty scary. The youtube videos are pretty convincing to me. I've been window shopping that dealer network, and am now planning to steer clear.