Installing a safe?

[Durb]

I received a small safe for Christmas for installation in the fifth wheel. This will be used for storing valuables like the I-pad and such while we are out. In forty plus years of camping I have never even come close to needing a firearm but will be keeping one in the safe as I have grown older and it will bolster my comfort level. My questions are where to install the safe.

In full view, hidden or severely hidden?

Super easy access, moderate or hard to get to?

In the bedroom or by the door?

I worry the safe will be a collection point for a thief and he will just have to steal one item. This safe would be easy to get into at a later time. Should I anchor it so that it would inflict major damage to the trailer to remove? Are most RV robberies just in-and-outs and they pick up the easy items and would avoid an anchored safe?

Any comments would be appreciated.

[dedmiston]

magicbus wrote:
When I noticed this thread had gone to 5 pages I knew there was no way anybody was still discussing installing a safe! 😛

Dave

Agreed.

[tomman58]

Why would anyone really need a safe??? Money? any bank will do. Gun? why would anyone carry along a handgun? Cops told me long ago that my Louisville slugger was more effective and less likely for me to hurt anyone but the attacker or thief. If we are out of our TT for much time we take along our phones and any jewelry. We have traveled with a TT for 50+ years and never have had a problem but we rarely boondock and normally stay at private RV parks.

[magicbus]

When I noticed this thread had gone to 5 pages I knew there was no way anybody was still discussing installing a safe! 😛

Dave

[hornet28]

Scooby, If I'm understanding correctly what you're referring to all the time is experiences that you've had as a commercial driver. That's a whole different ballgame in what's allowed. Have you ever heard of any RVer being stopped and told they needed to give a 'sample'?
No I don't agree with searches being done without probable cause. Without a warrant they shouldn't search. If you give them permission without a warrant that's your own fault.

[JRscooby]

hornet28 wrote:
Well scooby I guess I just don't look suspicious. In my 60+ years of driving the only time any vehicle of mine has been searched was not long after 911 and I was crossing into Canada. After it was over I asked the guy "why me" His answer was "The inspection bay was empty".

So you feel it is fine for people that do not look like you to be searched without probable cause?
Don't sound like what I was taught this country stands for.
Over the years my trucks have been searched many times. Most times, I could see a reasonable expectation of a security risk. (I did get a good laugh at Joliet when I showed up with a load of meat in a truck too long to fit in salli-port) Pullin into military bases or ammo plants, you know what you can take, and adjust before you get there. But in times of "War" I'm told we must give up our freedoms. So for years I have lived with the understanding that my truck can be searched at any scale, at any time I might be required to give a sample.
Maybe understanding what rights I carried a gun "to protect" but where denied to me makes me more sensitive.

MikeDupont wrote:
Scooby, my posts only pertain to the existence of a federal 'adding a compartment' law. I had nothing to say about seizing money.

Can you, or anybody else, explain how taking somebodies car is different than taking cash. Not talking about convicted of a crime, give up stuff to pay fine. CAF, does not require a conviction or even charges. The Government takes the stuff. Then, if you have the means, you hire lawyers and prove you did no crimes.

I first mentioned this idea as something else that owners should think about when locating a safe. A safe will work better for it's intended purpose if it is hard to find. But if hard to find, it might trigger other issues. And many will say "Laws to make it hard for smugglers are good" It is not unheard of for law to be used against other targets. I hate to scare people but there is a chance that somebody in some state to decide there are too many RVs on the roads. This law is on the books...

[MikeDupont]

Scooby, my posts only pertain to the existence of a federal 'adding a compartment' law. I had nothing to say about seizing money.

[hornet28]

Well scooby I guess I just don't look suspicious. In my 60+ years of driving the only time any vehicle of mine has been searched was not long after 911 and I was crossing into Canada. After it was over I asked the guy "why me" His answer was "The inspection bay was empty".

[JRscooby]

hornet28 wrote:
In your case you put a false floor in and had a hidden compartment such as smugglers use. That's a lot different than someone installing a safe. As far as a couple of 20's under the floor mat it would take a real stretch of the imagination to figure that was illegal.

Yes, I'm sure I could of smuggled something under that false floor. But I never did, but have no idea how I could prove that. You think smugglers would not use a safe if it did not fall under the same laws? I will talk more about the $20s later.

I had an experience a few years ago when I was traveling alone and ended up having a medical problem on the road. I had to call 911 and an ambulance was sent to get me, I was not conscious when admitted to the hospital. A state trooper had gotten my pistols and came and asked if there was anything else I needed to have safeguarded. I tried explaining where a few thousand dollars was hidden and had to give up. He never blinked an eye about the money being well hidden and ended up coming back for me after his shift was over and taking me and my pistols back to my rig

You met a good LEO. But at least a few cops are not good, and some department policies expect money to be collected.
When I was working, often the only thing I could find on the radio was stations broadcastings people that wanted to compete with the drug addict that made his living attacking people. For those times I would download interviews by the National Press Club. A couple of those might make people that wander wonder about where the danger lies.
1 was a wheel of the DEA. When asked about the nation-wide network of license plate readers would reduce the movement of drugs replied "Not Much. But they will help with more Civil Asset Forfeiture"
Another was with the head of Kansas Highway Patrol, at the time right after Co legalized recreational use of pot, and Ks was proving tax cuts don't increase government revenue. When asked what effect budget cuts would have on his department, "Do to changes in Co law, we will be watching East bound traffic real close. There will be some vehicles sold"

MikeDupont wrote:
Folks, the fed law pertains to altering the vehicle to make a hidden compartment. Adding a firearm safe which is cable locked under your truck seat or putting your pistol into the glove box is not a violation + fulfills the locked up requirement (which usually reads 'inaccessible').
This was taught to me in a law enforcement training course years ago and again in the 2000's in a drug interdiction course. Personally, i agree that it is Stupid- you own the vehicle and in my America, you can alter it however you want to. But that isnt going to change the law's existence. And again, i dont recall how this applies to motorhomes. It doesnt apply to TTs, 5ers, or truck bed campers, just the vehicles that we think of as passenger vehicles.

(and like many laws on the books, i have never heard of a non-criminal ever being charged under this law)

First, I brought up state laws.
And your experience, and mine, are by no means universal. But conviction or even charges are not necessary to loose cash or property to CAF. Few years back most every news network was talking about the church group that had been collecting money for charity. Their bus was stopped in OK, and all cash they collected was seized. But unlike most times similar happens they got attention, and money returned.

schlep1967 wrote:
Really folks, if it is a hidden compartment and there is no drug dog keying on it, how would they know to confiscate you vehicle? Only if they asked you if you made any hidden compartments in your vehicle and you actually told them you have.
If a safe is inside your RV and can't be seen through the open door, without probable cause no PO has any reason to enter and perform a search without a warrant.
Put in your safe and bolt it down.

I have questions about this; Remember years back when we learned that Government might be hearing are calls, reading are E-mails? Some at all levels of government, and people from all walks of life where singing "If you are doing nothing wrong, what have you got to hide?" Now, while you are thinking about how widespread that idea is, want to bet that when you tell the LEO outside your window "No, you can't look around" the judge he calls will not decide "MUST HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE"?

Now let's talk about the money under the floor mat.
I took a job to spot a load of Red Cross supplies in Fla. The way they work is load supplies in a rented trailer, then guys like me pull them into where the hurricane is expected, drop the trailer, and run for safety. Before I left town, I stopped at the bank got enough cash to feed me and my Cat for a few days (Can anybody say that is a bad idea?) Run went as planned, all expenses on plastic, until middle of Tenn on the way back. I got stopped for a "CMV roadside safety inspection". In the course of that inspection, LEO found the envelope under the mattress. (Would like explanation of what part of safety is under the mattress) Now they had read my logbook, knew what I was doing. The Bank envelope had the bank printout in with the cash. Still that officer had to contact his sergeant, who had to check with his office, before they could give me back my money.

[schlep1967]

Really folks, if it is a hidden compartment and there is no drug dog keying on it, how would they know to confiscate you vehicle? Only if they asked you if you made any hidden compartments in your vehicle and you actually told them you have.
If a safe is inside your RV and can't be seen through the open door, without probable cause no PO has any reason to enter and perform a search without a warrant.
Put in your safe and bolt it down.

[MikeDupont]

Folks, the fed law pertains to altering the vehicle to make a hidden compartment. Adding a firearm safe which is cable locked under your truck seat or putting your pistol into the glove box is not a violation + fulfills the locked up requirement (which usually reads 'inaccessible').
This was taught to me in a law enforcement training course years ago and again in the 2000's in a drug interdiction course. Personally, i agree that it is Stupid- you own the vehicle and in my America, you can alter it however you want to. But that isnt going to change the law's existence. And again, i dont recall how this applies to motorhomes. It doesnt apply to TTs, 5ers, or truck bed campers, just the vehicles that we think of as passenger vehicles.

(and like many laws on the books, i have never heard of a non-criminal ever being charged under this law)

[hornet28]

In your case you put a false floor in and had a hidden compartment such as smugglers use. That's a lot different than someone installing a safe. As far as a couple of 20's under the floor mat it would take a real stretch of the imagination to figure that was illegal. I had an experience a few years ago when I was traveling alone and ended up having a medical problem on the road. I had to call 911 and an ambulance was sent to get me, I was not conscious when admitted to the hospital. A state trooper had gotten my pistols and came and asked if there was anything else I needed to have safeguarded. I tried explaining where a few thousand dollars was hidden and had to give up. He never blinked an eye about the money being well hidden and ended up coming back for me after his shift was over and taking me and my pistols back to my rig

[JRscooby]

MikeDupont wrote:

JRscooby wrote:
1 thing nobody has mentioned is legal problems a safe, or any other hidden compartment can cause. ALEC has managed to get laws past in some states that let state seize any vehicle that has had a compartment installed that could be used to conceal cash, guns, or drugs even if there is no evidence of of cash, guns, or drugs.

There is a Federal law on this as well. Not sure how it applies to motorhomes tho.

I have not heard of a Federal, but that doesn't mean it does not exist. I have heard the Feds telling local departments; If your state or city passed a law limiting your profit from CAF, call US. If we can make a Fed case, we will give part of assets back to dept.

What is ALEC? It seems like most states require a firearm be locked up while traveling.

American Legislative Exchange Council.

hornet28 wrote:
I highly doubt that states or Feds have such a law as some RV manufactures have installed safes in their products.

Feel free to doubt. Just be aware your doubt does not change laws.



The first I heard of this kind of law, I read in a trucking industry magazine that Ohio had passed the law. Years before I had put a false floor in 1 of the luggage compartments on my old Pete. I had no intention of hiding anything, but so I didn't need to lift tool bag over the lip of compartment. But reading the law, I could loose my income state wanted my truck. (I just called dispatch, put Ohio on the list of states I did not run to or thru)
Will the law apply to MH or other RV? Well, IIRC, the law did say it covered compartments not factory installed. And I'm sure that like most laws, it is more likely to be used against people that are darker, dirtier, or poorer than average at least to start
A month or so after I heard of the law my state was talking about it. I asked a Rep in a restaurant about it. He said it was being discussed. Asked "If a man was taking his kids to the beach, put a couple of $20s under the floor mat to buy ice-cream on the way home, could the state take his car?" No, no, nothing like that could happen. "Is there anything in the law to prevent it?" I got no answer

[hornet28]

I highly doubt that states or Feds have such a law as some RV manufactures have installed safes in their products. Plus the law in some states requires you to have a gun inaccessible locked in a case or even in a safe if available. The only exception to that would be if you're Legally carrying. If there is such a law post a link to them

[Durb]

JRscooby wrote:
1 thing nobody has mentioned is legal problems a safe, or any other hidden compartment can cause. ALEC has managed to get laws past in some states that let state seize any vehicle that has had a compartment installed that could be used to conceal cash, guns, or drugs even if there is no evidence of of cash, guns, or drugs.

What is ALEC? It seems like most states require a firearm be locked up while traveling.