Manufacturers - How Do You Answer This

[Dave_Pete]

This is one aspect of why I am leery of an aluminum framed camper, not to mention a newer, expensive camper. Of course the extremely poor quality craftsmanship could be duplicated in a wood-framed camper, but at least notice the weld quality. And what is it with the pinched cable?

http://forums.goodsamclub.com/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27573424.cfm

The OP calls it an AF; I have to assume he means Arctic Fox. Wolf Creek (one of my close choices for a camper)claims it is built on the same assembly line as the Arctic Fox. Maybe by the same welding crew? Assembly crew? And I am considering a Wolf Creek why?

I am sure many wise and conscientious TC buyers visit the Arctic Fox/Wolf Creek factory prior to a purchase, JUST TO AVOID BUYING A PIECE OF CR$P LIKE THIS! And I am sure they get the red-carpet treatment. So how do manufacturers do it? Take you on a fantasy field trip, show actual workers doing such fine work, and then once you leave the building, quality falls apart. How do they do it? Why do they do it? Arctic Fox is one of the most expensive campers out there! Wolf Creek, being somewhat less expensive must REALLY suck!

And every manufacturer must answer to this sort of accusation. Why don't we TC buyers (and other RVs) demand some sort of digital picture build history of our individual camper? Perhaps there's a way of proving pictures belong to our actual unit.

Oh I know, such labor intensive assembly would add several thousand dollars to our out the door price and we consumers won't stand for it. As if the multiple tens of thousands we spend already isn't enough to expect good work.

That 1960's wood-framed and nicely birch-wood paneled TC I found on Craigslist for $500 is looking much nicer to me this morning.

Manufacturers - how do you answer this?

[Paul_Clancy]

I'll take the 5 hour guys work every time.

[OFDPOS]

Like the automotive end its 2 fold,
1. That's what you see/get with flat rate wage workers,
2. They only get paid a certain amount of time to do the job , so the worker cuts every corner, half a$$ does everything to make the time or better yet gets paid for 12 hours in a 8 hour work day by beating the flat rate time...

I hated working at the dealership where the techs were flat rate. The come-backs dealing with the upset customers over shotty work !
Flip side to that the hourly wage tech, he doesn't care if it takes him 3 hours or 5 hours to get the job done , it all pays the same !

[Cloud_Dancer]

Obviously, I knew that I was not buying the high-quality RV product of my dreams. I don't live in dreamworld. I bought the mostest motorhome, with the features that I wanted, at the price that I could afford. And, I sure as heck was never going to wait for the Japanese to ever get into the large diesel pusher manufacturing business, nor teach anyone how to do it. However, I did discover a couple of items on my motorhome which were of even LESS quality than I knew about. I'm fortunate to be able to fix things (with help from people on these forums).

[jwmII]

The level of quality shown in your pictures are the norm. You will see garbage like this in one form or another on every RV being built in America today. You said something about the builder not returning your calls. Why should they? They have accomplished their goal of doing a half assed job in record time , shoving it out the door for shipment to some dealer who is of the same kind as the builder and then found a buyer,(you or anyone else would be fine)unloaded it and moved on to the next sale. And now none of them knows you. Typical. It won't stop either because we are anxious to follow our various dreams regarding RVs. Therefore we listen to the liars club that sells this stuff and is only to anxious to tell you what you want to hear, even if it means lying. Offer certain levels of service, even if it means lying. On and on it goes. Lets all get together and stop buying their $h!!&. Oh!! what was that ? "Really! You don't want to". "You would rather have fun" How about this for fun!! Having your RV use restricted because you have taken it back and taken it back for warranty services by people who have no intention of doing the right thing and after all since it's after the sale people who no longer know you. They will out wait you since after all they are busy with the next dreamer with their recreation plans.

[Dave_Pete]

Well on my way. 🙂

[mr__ed]

Dave Pete wrote:
Mr ed. Very perceptive post.

I might add, I could push on the interior walls of that older fiver and they wouldn't "give" like the walls in later models. It was more like being in a regular home rather than in an RV. 🙂

[Dave_Pete]

Mr ed. Very perceptive post.

[Dave_Pete]

Spoon059: we took our two little kids (birth to about 5 when we sold out and bought backpacking gear) out all the time in a 15' 1954 canned ham TT, single axle. The baby was in the cot bunk above the sofa/double bed. The older child slept in the dinette bed. We took sponge baths and used a porti-potti slid out from under a dinette bench seat cabinet. When adults needed privacy the other would take kids exploring plants and stuff. The children didn't need privacy at that point. The baby cot used a swing down crib wall I built out of 1x2's and 1/2" dowels. Swung backwards and up, it stored pillows enroute. Make your 22'' work and be proud. 🙂

[Jarlaxle]

mr. ed wrote:
One of my acquaintances in Unicoi, TN has an older fifth wheel sitting in her front yard which she use as a guest home for visitors. I don't remember the exact date of mfr or the brand but I think it was from the 80's. She gave me a tour and I could really appreciate the quality that went into that unit. It had an all-around "solid" feel. From the walls to the floor to the cabinetry and appliances it was pretty high class in my estimation.

That being said, I'm pretty happy with my 2007 fifth wheel but I'll never forget exploring that older fiver.

I saw a couple (late 40's, maybe) last month...they were in a Carriage 5er that looked to be from the late 80's. Compared to anything from the last few years, it was head and shoulders superior. (They kind of liked the bus, too. 🙂 )

[westend]

Dave Pete wrote:
Thank you westend. I've been kind of self centered through all of this, and so busy with about five other major projects in addition to the whole camper search thing, so I hadn't noticed your signature. Today I wondered as I read your response what RV you had and saw the link to the Hilton. I had no IDEA you had done a resto! I thumbed through your thread and wow, looks very informative. I'll have to refer back to it over time. Thanks for your support.

And thanks to all who have supported my, at times, intense whining. I guess it all proved out in the end that not all of us have to buy new when the underlying principles of supply and demand shape other opportunities.

You're welcome. Yeah, I thought putting up the resto thread might help out a few other folks if they aren't familiar with the bits and pieces.

Pretty much what I imagined your intent was on putting up this thread, sharing what you found out about RV's. Thanks for taking the time.

When I first saw your picture of the Queen, I thought it might be an Avion, before reading the whole post. I've been looking for something like that to mess around with. I also have my eye on an old Airstream but that just seems like too much work. Now that I've seen the Queen, I'll have a second or third name on my target list

[Dave_Pete]

Thank you westend. I've been kind of self centered through all of this, and so busy with about five other major projects in addition to the whole camper search thing, so I hadn't noticed your signature. Today I wondered as I read your response what RV you had and saw the link to the Hilton. I had no IDEA you had done a resto! I thumbed through your thread and wow, looks very informative. I'll have to refer back to it over time. Thanks for your support.

And thanks to all who have supported my, at times, intense whining. I guess it all proved out in the end that not all of us have to buy new when the underlying principles of supply and demand shape other opportunities.

[spoon059]

Dog Folks wrote:
We, meaning the majority of the RV buyers, will not pay the extra price for quality. Sad but true.

In our society, manufacturers only make what we will buy, and cheap is what we demand, so cheap is what we get.

Of course, there are a few RV's that are high quality, and higher cost, but they are the minority.

I'm getting in here a little late, but I take exception to this comment... If the manufacturers aren't willing to provide a quality, product, why bother at all? I look at the prices of these RV's today and wonder where the money goes. These RV's are pretty much disposable at this point.

I have a 1998 Nash RV that we bought as third owners from my wife's uncle. The thing is heavy, but solid. They bought a new trailer at an RV show that was new and pretty and had a little more interior room. They are kicking themselves now, because we have a quality dependable trailer and they have a heap of problems.

My buddy bought a brand spanking new trailer last July. He has taken it out maybe 3 times. He was taking it out of storage a couple weeks ago and found out that his fiberglass front cap is delaminated and the metal end caps are pulling away. Brand new trailer... really? Worst of all, we have a trip planned for Memorial Day and the dealer doesn't know if they can have it fixed by then. They told him they need to contact the manufacturer to get approval to work on it... really? Brand new $30K trailer less than 10 months old and you need approval to fix it?

My in-laws bought a new camper in fall 2012. They haven't had any major issues, but they have little nuisances almost all the time. Brand new $20K trailer.

My 16 year old Nash sure is ugly... but its solid. We plan to hold onto it as long as possible, but with an 18 month old and another on the way, that little 22 footer is gonna get real tight, real quick. Based upon the quality, or lack thereof, of newer trailers I won't be "upgrading" anytime soon.

[westend]

Hey Dave, the Travel Queen looks real homey! Many happy miles wished for 'ya.

[mr__ed]

One of my acquaintances in Unicoi, TN has an older fifth wheel sitting in her front yard which she use as a guest home for visitors. I don't remember the exact date of mfr or the brand but I think it was from the 80's. She gave me a tour and I could really appreciate the quality that went into that unit. It had an all-around "solid" feel. From the walls to the floor to the cabinetry and appliances it was pretty high class in my estimation.

That being said, I'm pretty happy with my 2007 fifth wheel but I'll never forget exploring that older fiver.