Move to diesel engines across the RV spectrum a fad?

[mlts22]

I'm noticing that in every segment of RV-ing, be it tow vehicles, or motorhomes, diesel engines are appearing as options (such as the one on the 1500 Dodge.)

I wonder if this is something that is here to stay, or if it is something similar to the 1970s where we had diesel cars as an option, but eventually almost everyone switched back to gassers.

Opinions? Think this is something permanent, or just a fad?

[Seattle_Lion]

We're still waiting until petroleum catches on. In the meantime we use our mule team to pull our trailer. Seriously, diesels have long been superior to gas engines in many ways: they extract more energy per gallon of fuel. That translates to better mileage and/or more power. For example, a Ford F350 with a 400hp V8 gas engine produces 400 pound feet of torque. The 400hp diesel for the same truck produces 800. That makes a big difference in power...double.

Large trucks have always been diesel due to the increased power. The EPA clean air regulations couldn't be met by diesels on smaller vehicles up until a year or two ago. Diesel exhaust contained lots of NOx, sulfur, soot, and smelled horrible. In addition, diesels were noisy. A few years ago, the Federal government mandated that all diesel fuel have very low sulfur content. This raised the price per gallon a lot, but it did stop those toxic emissions. More recently, car and truck makers have had to meet new standards for diesels.

As a result, modern diesels are pretty quiet - not much worse than gas engines, they don't emit soot, and have very few NOx emissions. In other words, they are tame enough to put on any vehicle. We replaced our 2013 F150 with a 2014 F350 diesel this winter. Had to due to our trailer being too much for the F150. From other F350 owners I hear that my mileage won't change much when towing. The F150 got about 18mpg without a load, and 10.5 mpg at the best when towing. The new diesel currently gets around 15mpg. That should improve as the engine gets to 10,000 miles. I understand that my mileage will be between 12 and 14mpg when we tow our trailer. I like that.

Diesels aren't a fad. In fact they were first. The first internal combustion engines were diesels. Before adding all the anti-pollution stuff, diesels are very simple engines. They have an extremely long life. A diesel can go for hundreds of thousands of miles without needing major service. Now instead of having the stinky old-fashioned diesel smell, our truck exhaust smells a bit like ammonia.

[69_Avion]

I wonder if the same fad of using diesel engines in the semi trucks is going to end soon?

[westend]

wny_pat wrote:

mike mck wrote:

fordsooperdooty wrote:
Between 40 and 70% of all vehicles sold in Europe are diesels, in the USA market 2 to 3% of cars are diesel.

Euro diesels are fuel efficient, reliable, quiet and diesel is 33% more efficient than gasoline..which more than offsets the price difference because of an average of 10 miles per gallon more with diesel.

A small drawback is that although diesel has a higher energy output per gallon than gasoline, it takes approximately 25 percent more crude oil to make a gallon of diesel oil than it does to make a gallon of gasoline.

An interesting factoid about Diesel taking 25% more crude to Make a gal of diesel than gasoline. All I have ever been able to find is a barrel (42 gal) makes 20 gallons of gasoline 7 gallons of Diesel and the bal various petroleum products.

and you are wrong.
http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_refiningYou can only get 19 gallons of gasoline out of a barrel, but there is still a lot left in the barrel to give you other stuff. And you can get 10 gallons of diesel out of the same barrel, and it does not cost as much to get that 10 gallons of diesel that it cost to get the gasoline. The gasoline takes a lot more processing, so diesel is cheaper to get out.

Refining crude oil is a lot more complex than depicted on a graph or tally sheet. Some of the incident refined product, like gasoline, is used in the refining process. The refineries also focus the process to make products that have the most payback like aromatics and other petrochemicals. It would be difficult for anyone other than a refinery bean counter to say, absolutely, what the price is of the various products produced.

Additional cost to the end user would have to absorb costs of storage and distribution. As things exist now, diesel probably has the edge with that.

[wny_pat1]

mike mck wrote:

fordsooperdooty wrote:
Between 40 and 70% of all vehicles sold in Europe are diesels, in the USA market 2 to 3% of cars are diesel.

Euro diesels are fuel efficient, reliable, quiet and diesel is 33% more efficient than gasoline..which more than offsets the price difference because of an average of 10 miles per gallon more with diesel.

A small drawback is that although diesel has a higher energy output per gallon than gasoline, it takes approximately 25 percent more crude oil to make a gallon of diesel oil than it does to make a gallon of gasoline.

An interesting factoid about Diesel taking 25% more crude to Make a gal of diesel than gasoline. All I have ever been able to find is a barrel (42 gal) makes 20 gallons of gasoline 7 gallons of Diesel and the bal various petroleum products.

and you are wrong.
http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_refiningYou can only get 19 gallons of gasoline out of a barrel, but there is still a lot left in the barrel to give you other stuff. And you can get 10 gallons of diesel out of the same barrel, and it does not cost as much to get that 10 gallons of diesel that it cost to get the gasoline. The gasoline takes a lot more processing, so diesel is cheaper to get out.

[Supercharged]

mlts22 wrote:
I'm noticing that in every segment of RV-ing, be it tow vehicles, or motorhomes, diesel engines are appearing as options (such as the one on the 1500 Dodge.)

I wonder if this is something that is here to stay, or if it is something similar to the 1970s where we had diesel cars as an option, but eventually almost everyone switched back to gassers.

Opinions? Think this is something permanent, or just a fad?

Soon they will leave the diesel behind and go back to real trucks. The women are getting sick of all the oil on the rug.

[free_radical]

Oaklevel wrote:

Diesel engines in the newer trucks do not need an idle time.... actually leaving a big truck diesel running (not a small diesel) can be more efficient than cutting it off.

:h
Idling the engine and BURNING fuel is more efficient then turning it off????
:h

[RVUSA]

Chris Bryant wrote:
I find it interesting that the gasoline engines are adopting more diesel like attributes, like direct injection. I believe several makers have gasoline engines that convert to compression ignition at highway speeds in development.

the 2000 optimax outboards I had on my boat used that. Even with being 2 smoke engines they would get amazing fuel mileage.

[atreis]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

atreis wrote:
Diesels have greater mpg which makes them appealing to some even when it doesn't actually save money - fuel cost is higher. They're also nicely torquey (although electric motors are even better).

Modern diesels are also very different from the dirty, noisy ones that didn't last long in the 70s. Fuel is cleaner and emission standards are higher now. They're less noisy than they were in the 70s, but still noisier than gas though.

Go back and re-read the OPs post.
You didn't answer his question - or offer an opinion of the diesel "fad"..:S

~

Actually, I did. Re-read the first two sentences. They directly address the "fad" - reasons why some people find diesel engines appealing. The last bit is relevant to the possibility that it could be more than a fad this time around. Only time will tell.

[mike_mck]

Supercharged wrote:

mlts22 wrote:
I'm noticing that in every segment of RV-ing, be it tow vehicles, or motorhomes, diesel engines are appearing as options (such as the one on the 1500 Dodge.)

I wonder if this is something that is here to stay, or if it is something similar to the 1970s where we had diesel cars as an option, but eventually almost everyone switched back to gassers.

Opinions? Think this is something permanent, or just a fad?

Few more years and than all are switched back to gas to save money and not have so much smell, cost of repairs, oil on the feet.

Super
Your Same old argument but modern diesels do not smell. My 15 year old powerstroke has cost no more in repairs then my 94 lightning 351 and there is no leaking oil.

[mike_mck]

fordsooperdooty wrote:
Between 40 and 70% of all vehicles sold in Europe are diesels, in the USA market 2 to 3% of cars are diesel.

Euro diesels are fuel efficient, reliable, quiet and diesel is 33% more efficient than gasoline..which more than offsets the price difference because of an average of 10 miles per gallon more with diesel.

A small drawback is that although diesel has a higher energy output per gallon than gasoline, it takes approximately 25 percent more crude oil to make a gallon of diesel oil than it does to make a gallon of gasoline.

An interesting factoid about Diesel taking 25% more crude to Make a gal of diesel than gasoline. All I have ever been able to find is a barrel (42 gal) makes 20 gallons of gasoline 7 gallons of Diesel and the bal various petroleum products.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

atreis wrote:
Diesels have greater mpg which makes them appealing to some even when it doesn't actually save money - fuel cost is higher. They're also nicely torquey (although electric motors are even better).

Modern diesels are also very different from the dirty, noisy ones that didn't last long in the 70s. Fuel is cleaner and emission standards are higher now. They're less noisy than they were in the 70s, but still noisier than gas though.

Go back and re-read the OPs post.
You didn't answer his question - or offer an opinion of the diesel "fad"..:S

~

[atreis]

Diesels have greater mpg which makes them appealing to some even when it doesn't actually save money - fuel cost is higher. They're also nicely torquey (although electric motors are even better).

Modern diesels are also very different from the dirty, noisy ones that didn't last long in the 70s. Fuel is cleaner and emission standards are higher now. They're less noisy than they were in the 70s, but still noisier than gas though.

[Cummins12V98]

Homer wrote:
IMHO they are always looking for a way to change the rules of the game. Don't get me wrong I love Diesels. However, the upkeep is much higher, fuel is higher,it will require a lot of certification of mechanics to work on them, (that is going to increase the price of service). While longegivity is better, the fuel mileage has come way down on the bigger diesels. Fuel prices will probably rise substantially as diesel fuel competes with heating oil for market.

Why do you say a diesels upkeep is higher?

My 2011 RAM with Cummins. I change oil and filter at about 7,500 mile and air and fuel filters at 15- 20,000. That's it!

[down_home]

I miss my Diesels. I've got gas and had others but.... The 02 Ford F350 Dualie Diesel was a real engine. I have no idea why I traded for the 05. It served us well too. I don't want he new ones that use pig ---.
Problems with corrosion down the line. Maybe another Dodge 2500 diesel. Prices are sky high on them now though. A Lariat F35 Duallie is 70,000 area. Don't know about GMs.
Once you go diesel....
Warm us: The 01 Dodge took a bit more and any trace of moisture and it burped. Three or four minutes tops, in cold weather but not sub artic.
My 05 F150 needs a stable mate. Guess I'll have to mow grass and get another diesel. 🙂