National Park Closures due to Shutdown

I'm kinda nibbling the bait. Right now, turning the TV on is not the answer. Hey, I have a couple of poles set up for creek fishing, and the sun's shining.

aftermath wrote:
Joshua Tree is not open. The highway that runs through it is open. A couple of years ago we were on our way home from New Mexico and wanted to hit Death Valley and Yosemite. We found out that, because a state highway went through Death Valley they could not shut the highway down. We went and noticed that the campgrounds were all closed but we got to see the valley and that was good enough for us. Yosemite was different. It was completely closed. Opened a couple of days later when we got home.

Made an error in my earlier post and want to correct it. Cummins made a good point about the roads into Joshua Tree. My statement was how they did it in 2013 when they shut down the government. They actually did shut everything down, including all the parks. The only ones they left "open" were those that had major highways going through them, highway 190 through Death Valley is an example.

This time, in an effort to not put people out, they left them open but removed the staffing. This is causing the very predictable outcomes that have been reported here. I am not in favor of shutting down the government but if they choose to go that route, they need to shut everything down. We have become a coddled society and don't like to deal with hardships. This is serious business. Close them up and perhaps more will get involved in putting pressure on our representatives.

Is 3 deaths the same, higher, or lower amount than usual for this time frame?
The report I read said a 14yo fell from a 700' cliff, a man slid down a stone slope, and most sad,a tree fell on a woman. The report doesn't mention if having the parks staffed would have prevented any of these(possibly the first 2 were 'out of bounds'?).
Based on the other issues, it certainly makes sense to just close the parks...clearly we as a society can't be trusted to act responsibly. They should have known.

News reports of 3 death on National Parks during the shutdown.

gbopp wrote:

folivier wrote:
But the question begs for an answer: if people are aware of the shutdown why are they leaving their garbage to pile up? Take it home with you! Do your part to help.

Because people are pigs and feel entitled to leave their garbage for someone else to clean up?

The old syndrome “Tradegy of the Commons”. The average person uses and abuses !

2edgesword wrote:
It would be nice to think that people who are camping would be more concerned than the general population with respect to keeping the environment as clean as possible. But given what I've read so far I have to agree it probably would have been better to keep them closed if the personnel were not in place to properly maintain them.

I would suspect those are tourists day trippers.

Campers has this basic values of loving nature and outdoors to trash it. And would at least know how to make cat holes should the need arises.

It would be nice to think that people who are camping would be more concerned than the general population with respect to keeping the environment as clean as possible. But given what I've read so far I have to agree it probably would have been better to keep them closed if the personnel were not in place to properly maintain them.

shelbyfv wrote:
Closing them completely obviously makes the most sense and is what has happened in the past. You can Google if you want to understand why it was different this time. FWIW, I've tried to make this post informative rather than political....

Nothing political intended. Point being it always seems like a few wreck it for most of us. I doubt, but could be wrong, that the majority of visitors are trashing the place. I would hope not anyway.

shelbyfv wrote:
Closing them completely obviously makes the most sense and is what has happened in the past. You can Google if you want to understand why it was different this time. FWIW, I've tried to make this post informative rather than political....

I agree. Closing them earlier would have been a better alternative except park management thought the shutdown will be brief and volunteers can be a stop gap until they also got overwhelmed.

And thank you for making it apolitical although I know we are all seething inside with this stupid situation.

Closing them completely obviously makes the most sense and is what has happened in the past. You can Google if you want to understand why it was different this time. FWIW, I've tried to make this post informative rather than political....