New 30ft Trailer Towing Experience

[bluepost]

Picked up our 2016 Sunset Trail 270BH from Manteca and towed it back to Reno using our 2014 Toyota Sequoia Platinum with 113t P rated Michelin LTX Defenders aired up to 42psi (max 44) and an Equalizer 4 point hitch. Tekonsha 90250 RF "wireless" brake controller.

Sticker weight was 5685. I stopped at the scales on the way home and had 50 lb Yamaha Generator in the back, full propane (+50 lbs), a single 27 series battery mounted (60? lbs), and about 100 lbs of "stuff"...tools etc, and a bit of water from the walk through.

Came out to 6020 lbs on the trailer with a 820lb tongue weight.
Truck was about 250 lbs under max weight with me inside. Leaving me 250 lbs for wife and 2 small kids, right below the limit.

The ride over Donner Pass (about 7100 ft) on I80 was no sweat. Never dropped below 3rd, 4th most of the time until high elevations, never had an issue holding 55mph. Never got above 62mph by own choice, and don't plan to (maybe one speed run to 75mph, max tire speed on trailer, for emergency purposes to test stability). Never got any sway, and the trailer was set up "okay". The dealer added an inch to the ball height for squat, but our truck has air suspension and it aired it up back to level putting the trailer just a bit high....not high enough anyone would notice, it looked good, but actually measuring and using a level it was a bit nose high. I have since adjusted the hitch height.

The dealer also "guessed" and the about of weight distribution, and was about one washer short. They never measured the front fender, and as set up it returned the fender to within about 1/4 of an inch. I'm going to continue to tinker a bit with that setup.

Once I got home I loaded our supplies into the bins and weighed each bin before putting it into the trailer. Also set up a tongue weight station and experimented with different water loads. Fresh tank definitely adds TW and the black must be mounted way back in the rear as it removes it.

As loaded I have the TW down to 730 lbs with 10 gallons (80 lbs) left in the black, and one propane tank stored under the rear bunks. Total trailer weight should be about 6150 lbs with blankets, some food, drinks, couple pots, full generator, tools etc. This give us an 11.8% tongue weight. Towing home I was at 13.6%

That TW gives our family of 4 (I'm 190 lbs, 130lb wife, two 50lb kids) about 530 lbs of useful load total, so with us that leaves 110lbs for "stuff" in the truck....as weighed at the scale. Don't plan on needing that "stuff" in the truck, we would just put it in the trailer, but we have some room.

Loaded with fresh water (830 TW) we will be right at or slightly (20lbs) over TW/Cargo load if we all go, so no full fresh water unless I can find some weight to add to the back.

Camped in our driveway last night, and plan on dry camping tonight at a state park close to home. Will only load about half water, but wife and kids are driving separately anyway so max cargo capacity isn't an issue on this trip. I just want to keep the TW light to see if there is a difference in towing.

Overall the Toyota Sequoia is awesome. I've done lots of other towing with it, but nothing of this length. The tow/haul mode works awesome by increasing the amount of throttle for a given distance of gas pedal travel, so you're not flooring and coming off the gas very much. Never floored it once, not even uphill in the mountains, maybe 1.5 inches of pedal travel max, most of the time it felt like I was inputting maybe 1/2-3/4 of an inch. My previous vehicle was a Denali XL, okay vehicle, and even with the longer wheel base of the Denali, the Toyota beats it hands down.

Coming down the hill the bad aerodynamics of the trailer behind me kept braking minimal. Started at the top of the grades at 50 mph (lots of 50mph curves coming down), downshifted a couple times, couple brake applications but MUCH better than coming down with my 5000lb boat with surge brakes.

9.8 MPG average over 180 miles starting at sea level, over the 7000ft pass and back to 5000ft in Reno. I was at 11.2 for the 90 min drive before I started heading uphill.

It never felt "squishy" to me, actually the opposite. A couple times I saw a bump or feature in the road that I thought would start it porpoising to the point I would wince, but hardly anything...in other vehicles, with shorter trailers, I would be worried about the hitch bouncing down and scraping, but not even close. Just nice and firm, but not harsh. Was it the wide axles on the trailer? The air suspension? The hitch? All three?

Overall happy with the setup.

[Hannibal]

Interesting reading! I didn't realize how well the Equalizer 4 point hitch works until I decided to give it a try.

[bailer6334]

I'm confused. I was looking at a 2017 Sequoia to pull my 6695lb GVWR TT. I have weighed the tongue and it weighs 770lbs camping ready.

I had to get rid of my Dodge Durango because it only had a 720lb hitch capacity, and I like to have a safety factor when I tow.

When I talked to the Toyota dealer and the customer support people at the factory they told me the hitch weight capacity maximum is 10% of the vehicles GVWR. When you look at the Limited and Platimum specs you see it has a GVWR of 7300lbs max. To me that means the Hitch capacity maximum is onlt 730lbs.

I understand some vehicles manufactures allow for a increase in hitch capacity when using a WDH, however Toyota does not allow the increase.

So how do some folks have in excess of 850lbs on the hitch and feel that its safe? As I say I'm confused.

[Interex]

I've got well over a thousand miles towing our 33' camper with our Sequoia and a few thousand miles towing it with my Tundra. Comparing both, I can definitively say that I prefer the towing with the IRS Sequoia over the Tundra. It just handles the load so much better. The ride is easy and smooth (I run on the soft/comfort suspension setting). The only time that I felt the a very slight amount of sway on the Sequoia was when my black and grey tanks were nearly full, both of which sit at the very back of the TT and are a combined 101 gallons. It wasn't enough that I felt the vehicle wasn't in control, just that I took notice of it. After emptying the tanks, all was normal again.

[EstorilM]

You all are thinking purely for yourselves and not the market.

Not only is the excursion and big old suburban gone, but even the expeditions, tahoes, explorers, etc, are becoming more like cars - tow ratings, payloads, etc are going DOWN. Curb weights are going DOWN. Solid axles are turning to full independent front/rear suspensions.

And guess what? Mileages are up 30% and sales are up even more than that.

Asking an automaker to build an SUV targeted at a towing segment would get you a bunch of laughs. Crossovers are all the rage right now, and the domestic manufacturers are busy trying to appeal to families that are trying to buy large crossovers or minivans.

Basically, everyone wants "car-like" SUVs now. Everyone else can just get a truck (since, let's face it - the new interiors are more like luxury european vehicles anyways).

I mean I'm with you all - but the market is the polar opposite of what it was when the excursion was king.

In other news - while the domestic SUV kings have dropped their tow ratings to ~6500lbs, the new aluminum-tech land rover discovery bumped the tow rating up to 8200lbs. Some of the towing technology in that (and LR4) is really cool.

I know it's blasphemy to talk of european tow rigs, but the LRs are no joke. 🙂

The old Touareg V10 turbo diesel would have been fun too! ...till you need to pull the engine to change the alternator.

[rowekmr]

I am also surprised they haven't designed a heavier than 1500 duty SUV that satisfied this demand. I remember the Bronco based conversion SUV that my city would buy to pull their horse trailers before the Excursion came out. I forgot the name but there was enough demand that I would occasionally see them for people that needed 3 rows of seats and towing capability.

I say a smaller diesel or Ecoboost type engine (don't need to tow 20K+) with a 8-10 speed trans so they can keep the EPA numbers looking good too.

Maybe they know that people will eventually go with the truck which is I'm guessing is cheaper to build than a comparable SUV.

[Rustycamperpant]

PDX.Zs wrote:
Comparing an SUV to any pickup is kind of silly. If you need an SUV, you are stuck in the 1/2 ton range. Yeah, yeah, we all know about the Excursion and the 2500 Subs. Talking new vehicles here...

Patiently waiting for Ram or Ford to do a real truck-based, solid front axle, 3/4 ton SUV....

I mean, geez, how tough of a business case can this be?! They've already got the stupid truck. Slap an SUV body on the stupid thing, and take my money.

X2, I wish there was a "Like" button on this forum. I would be using it a lot...

[PDX_Zs]

Comparing an SUV to any pickup is kind of silly. If you need an SUV, you are stuck in the 1/2 ton range. Yeah, yeah, we all know about the Excursion and the 2500 Subs. Talking new vehicles here...

Patiently waiting for Ram or Ford to do a real truck-based, solid front axle, 3/4 ton SUV....

I mean, geez, how tough of a business case can this be?! They've already got the stupid truck. Slap an SUV body on the stupid thing, and take my money.

[CKNSLS]

keymastr wrote:
Just speaking from actual experience towing with an Expedition and then the same trailer,(7000 pounds, 27' bumper to ball), with an F250. Not even in the same league. And I used to defend half tons until I towed with a 3/4 ton.

Shorter lighter trailer, no problem.

The ADDITIONAL POINT IS that I believe you said you need a 2500 to tow that weight. That is not the case. While an Expedition IS NOT an ideal towing vehicle for that weight-a half-ton pick up would tow it without issue.

You cannot compare an Expedition to a half ton pickup. Does a 2500 tow better than a half ton? Probably. But there are definite trade offs. And if one tows for a week a year on a family vaction-and then on the occasional weekends-and the vehicle acts as a second car the rest of the time a half-ton is a GREAT CHOICE.

[keymastr]

Just speaking from actual experience towing with an Expedition and then the same trailer,(7000 pounds, 27' bumper to ball), with an F250. Not even in the same league. And I used to defend half tons until I towed with a 3/4 ton.

Shorter lighter trailer, no problem.

[Rustycamperpant]

Ive been towing my 29 foot bunkhouse for three seasons without issue. Guess what? I tow with an Expedition. Sometimes the tow vehicle bashing on this forum is as ridiculous as that 65 PSI for non-hauling....

[CKNSLS]

keymastr wrote:
You will not like towing with the Expedition. The independent rear suspension is mot very stable and adds to the "tail wagging the dog" effect. The only real answer for tow vehicles with more capacity is a crew cab 250/2500 series truck. The ride empty can be softened by dropping the air pressure in the tires since 65 PSI is ridiculous for non hauling/daily driving. Night and day difference when towing.

If you have not tried a 250 for towing you really owe it to yourself. Try sudden stops with a lane change and tell us if your Sequoia would do it as easily.

A half-ton truck can handle a 5,000 - 6,000 pound trailer with no issues at all. And they ride like cars when empty-unlike heavier trucks. Saying the real answer is a 2500 is a little disingenuous.

[keymastr]

You will not like towing with the Expedition. The independent rear suspension is mot very stable and adds to the "tail wagging the dog" effect. The only real answer for tow vehicles with more capacity is a crew cab 250/2500 series truck. The ride empty can be softened by dropping the air pressure in the tires since 65 PSI is ridiculous for non hauling/daily driving. Night and day difference when towing.

If you have not tried a 250 for towing you really owe it to yourself. Try sudden stops with a lane change and tell us if your Sequoia would do it as easily.

[bluepost]

We tow at max PSI on our P rated tires. Tows great.

[Gator_Mike]

Hi guys! Sorry for the long absence. Got very busy with work and family. Finally pulled the trigger in May on a Grand Design Imagine 2150RB. So far, have only had a chance to tow it home, about 45 miles, practice turning and backing in a big empty parking lot, and tow it to a storage location. We plan to go camping somewhere not too far away after our daughter's wedding next week! I had a question I have been unable to get a answer for from anyone: how do I know how much pressure to put in the TV tires when the RV is hooked up and in tow? Normal recommended pressure on the Sequoia door post is 33 psi. Max pressure on the tire sidewall is 44 psi at full load. Appreciate any insight. Called Michelin and they were no help. Ditto with a tire shop here that sells my tires. Thoughts? Thanks!

[bluepost]

UPDATE

I called Tekonsha at their 800 number. After a 10 min wait, got a tech on the line and they are putting a new controller in the mail. The unit has a 5 yr warranty which is nice. I assumed it was only a 1 yr warranty.

We have the Tekonsha Prodigy RF Wireless Brake Controller. It has no physical connection in the cab for the brake controller, just a wireless hand held remote. The actual brake controller is mounted on the frame of the trailer. Simple and clean install.