New to the forum. SUV towing questions

[PDX_Zs]

First off, thanks for this forum. I have learned a ton lurking here.

Everyone seems very friendly and helpful, so I figure no harm in putting my particular scenario out there.

I have been towing longer than I care to admit. Mostly experienced with heavy car haulers behind a 3/4 ton truck. Which is quite frankly as easy as falling off a log. My TT experience is limited. We had a smaller single axle unit last year. You all see where this is going???

My point is that I have always been well over gunned when towing. Kind of fun passing cars uphill in our V10 Ram while towing our other off-road rig on a car hauler.

So had to go the SUV route as we added people. Two adults and two kids. We have a 2006 Expedition with the tow package. I have added thicker sway bars front and rear. It is running LT tires on wheels that give about 3" more track. I have a tranny temp gauge installed and am kicking around a larger trans cooler, although it comes with one for the factory. Gears are 3.73 and tires are basically stock diameter.

Ford calls the curb weight at about 5,500 lbs.

From the Ford book...
4X4. 5.4L with optional trailer tow package
GCWR 14,500 Trailer weight 0–8,600
Weight Distribution
***These are hitch ratings only; actual vehicle ratings are dependent on
engine, transmission and axle combinations.***
Weight carrying
Max trailer weight 6,000 Max tounge weight 600
Weight distributing
Max trailer weight 8,950 Max tounge weight 895

OK, now I know you all are way smarter than me. I want to have some good reserve for safely in my capacities. Even though I went to public school my math is OK. But I wanted to ask you all to check my work. Please.

Looking at a Salem 26BH. Nice unit for four. They claim about 4750 dry, but we know how that goes.

So based on what we think we know about two adults, two kids, one big friendly dog, gear, food, clothes, toys, etc...

Does this seem like a reasonable and prudent setup? Remember want to be conservative.

What do you all think?

[Fordlover]

PDX.Zs wrote:
Wanted to follow up with you all and let you know where we ended up.

Again, I wanted to be conservative and have some reserve in my tow vehicle which is a 2006 Ford Expedition. So I wanted to be respectful of both weight and length.

Anyway, we bought the Grey Wolf 22BH. Really nice unit. Goes at 4100 or so dry.

Did a factory order, so we should have it in more like 8 weeks. Had a Reese DC hitch tossed in on the deal as well. So that was good...

Shopped a bunch of different dealers and not one of them had any concerns about selling us a MUCH bigger trailer. The common refrain was, "your truck will tow 8,600 pounds, you can pretty much have anything here..." (sigh)

Will report back and let you know how it all goes.

🙂

You'll be towing a trailer similar to mine in size/weight, and I tow with the Expeditions little brother Explorer. About 10K towing miles over the last 6 years, it does great. The rear axle weight is what I keep an eye on (we're well within the limits on everything else) so when we load up, we put everything in the trailer...the cargo area of the Explorer stays pretty much empty.

[Mickeyfan0805]

Congrats on doing your homework. That trailer should be able to stay well within your ratings. It is sad that RV dealers are so willing to ignore the limitations of vehicles (or are ignorant of them). I applaud you for going beyond what they salespeople were telling you and making a decision that fits within your comfort.

Enjoy your new trailer!

[PDX_Zs]

Wanted to follow up with you all and let you know where we ended up.

Again, I wanted to be conservative and have some reserve in my tow vehicle which is a 2006 Ford Expedition. So I wanted to be respectful of both weight and length.

Anyway, we bought the Grey Wolf 22BH. Really nice unit. Goes at 4100 or so dry.

Did a factory order, so we should have it in more like 8 weeks. Had a Reese DC hitch tossed in on the deal as well. So that was good...

Shopped a bunch of different dealers and not one of them had any concerns about selling us a MUCH bigger trailer. The common refrain was, "your truck will tow 8,600 pounds, you can pretty much have anything here..." (sigh)

Will report back and let you know how it all goes.

🙂

[a-d-s]

Everyone hear is spot on with their comments on payload and RAWR. My setup "was" very similar to your proposed so I thought by experiences would be of some value:

I have an '04 Expy, tow package etc... door sticker is 1460 lbs if I remember right. Our trailer is 26' bumper to ball and 4600 lbs dry, 6100 lbs loaded (scale verified). We have 3 kids (6, 4, 2) and lots of stuff (bikes etc...). So as others have said, we were challenged for payload and the expy was always right at the RAWR or a little over. That said, it handled like a champ with the reese DC. That said I was always cautious and mostly cruise at 80 kph, and rarely took it to 100 kph. Hills were a challenge, on the west coast we are faced with steep hills no matter what, so 6-8% grades are common, I was often in 1st gear going 50 kph up a long hill, which is fine we are not in a rush.

Anyway it worked OK, was a little nervous sometimes? Maybe. Was that founded? I don't know. Anyway, due to the kids growing and bikes getting bigger, and a want to go away from an SUV into a pickup, we bought a 2500hd silverado. Haven't towed with it yet, but I am sure I will be happy.

[PDX_Zs]

handye9 wrote:

PDX.Zs wrote:
E9 = CSM?

If you're asking E9 = Command Seargent Major -- No

E9 (Navy)= Master Chief Petty Officer -- Same paygrade and pretty much same position as Seargent Major. Just different title.

I was stationed on more than one joint service base and worked with several Seargent Majors. It's been a while, I've been retired since 1995.

Much to my Navy dad's chagrin, and never having been stationed at a joint service base, Naval rank and insignia have forever baffled me. :B

Either way, thanks for the help here and thanks for your service. Hope you are enjoying your retirement.

[Ron_Gratz]

PDX.Zs wrote:
Thank you very much for the input. I really want to be conservative here. I know people tow big stuff like this all day, but I really want to leave a lot in reserve.

OK let's use real numbers and see how it all works.

GVWR = 7100
Curb = 5500
Family, cargo and hitch = 800
Payload = 7100 - 6300 = 800 lbs.

So here is where it gets interesting. If the trailer weights 4500 or so, we are likely going to jam another 1000 lbs in it of gear, food, water and toys. The lightest we could possibly be is 5,500.

A trailer with a loaded weight of 5500# should have a tongue weight around 5500*0.13 = 715#.
With a properly sized and adjusted WDH, a TW of 715# would cause a vertical load of approximately 715*0.8 = 570# to be added to the TV.

Using your above numbers:
the TV's GVW would be 5500+800+570 = 6870#.
The 6870# GVW would be 230# less than the 7100# GVWR.
Is this enough conservatism?

Ron

[handye9]

PDX.Zs wrote:
E9 = CSM?

If you're asking E9 = Command Seargent Major -- No

E9 (Navy)= Master Chief Petty Officer -- Same paygrade and pretty much same position as Seargent Major. Just different title.

I was stationed on more than one joint service base and worked with several Seargent Majors. It's been a while, I've been retired since 1995.

[3_0charlie]

If you want real numbers, why not use the exact payload as stated on the yellow sticker, located in the driver door jam? My 2004 Expy says 1425 lbs, and with a 810 lbs TW, I'm left with 615 lbs for the passengers and hitch.

As for any TT, the lighter the better. With my Expy towing experience, I would not tow longer / heavier than my actual TT.

[PDX_Zs]

handye9 wrote:


Forget about the 8950 max tow weight, it's not a realistic number. You will exceed payload and GVWR on tow vehicle, before you get close to 8950 trailer weight. Also, towing a travel trailer is a different animal, compared to a car hauler. It has much more wind resistance on all sides.

Add the weight of your family, plus the weight of any cargo you may put in / or on the tow vehicle, plus 100 lbs for a WD hitch, plus the 5500 lbs curb weight. Subtract that total weight, from your GVWR, as printed on drivers door post sticker. The result will be your payload available for trailer tongue weight.

Divide available payload by .12, and that will tell you max loaded trailer weight. That is the point where you will be maxed out on GVWR and payload. If you want a comfort zone, subtract 150 - 200 lbs from the available payload, prior to calculating max trailer weight.

Example:

Lets say your GVWR is 7200 lbs.
Your curb weight plus cargo, plus family, plus WD hitch, add up to 6400 lbs.
Available payload would be 800 lbs.

800 lbs divided by .12 = loaded trailer weight should not exceed 6666 lbs. This is the point where GVWR and payload are maxed out.

For comfort zone - subtract 200 from that 800 available payload.
600 lbs divided by .12 = 5000 lbs loaded trailer weight.
.

E9 = CSM?

Thank you very much for the input. I really want to be conservative here. I know people tow big stuff like this all day, but I really want to leave a lot in reserve.

OK let's use real numbers and see how it all works.

GVWR = 7100
Curb = 5500
Family, cargo and hitch = 800
Payload = 7100 - 6300 = 800 lbs.

So here is where it gets interesting. If the trailer weights 4500 or so, we are likely going to jam another 1000 lbs in it of gear, food, water and toys. The lightest we could possibly be is 5,500.

Given that, it seems smart to consider the slightly smaller 235BH model, which goes at 3800lbs. But can be loaded to 7500lbs.

What say you all?

[3_0charlie]

Look at my signature... loaded 26' TT ready for camping: 6220#. 810# TW - both scaled.

Tows great (OEM hitch, Bridgestone LTs, Reese Dual-Cam setup, tuned engine, Magnaflow exhaust), but it's loaded at the limits of every rating.

[handye9]

PDX.Zs wrote:

Ford calls the curb weight at about 5,500 lbs.

From the Ford book...
4X4. 5.4L with optional trailer tow package
GCWR 14,500 Trailer weight 0–8,600
Weight Distribution
***These are hitch ratings only; actual vehicle ratings are dependent on
engine, transmission and axle combinations.***
Weight carrying
Max trailer weight 6,000 Max tounge weight 600
Weight distributing
Max trailer weight 8,950 Max tounge weight 895

What do you all think?

Forget about the 8950 max tow weight, it's not a realistic number. You will exceed payload and GVWR on tow vehicle, before you get close to 8950 trailer weight. Also, towing a travel trailer is a different animal, compared to a car hauler. It has much more wind resistance on all sides.

Add the weight of your family, plus the weight of any cargo you may put in / or on the tow vehicle, plus 100 lbs for a WD hitch, plus the 5500 lbs curb weight. Subtract that total weight, from your GVWR, as printed on drivers door post sticker. The result will be your payload available for trailer tongue weight.

Divide available payload by .12, and that will tell you max loaded trailer weight. That is the point where you will be maxed out on GVWR and payload. If you want a comfort zone, subtract 150 - 200 lbs from the available payload, prior to calculating max trailer weight.

Example:

Lets say your GVWR is 7200 lbs.

Your curb weight plus cargo, plus family, plus WD hitch, add up to 6400 lbs.

Available payload would be 800 lbs.

800 lbs divided by .12 = loaded trailer weight should not exceed 6666 lbs. This is the point where GVWR and payload are maxed out.

For comfort zone - subtract 200 from that 800 available payload.

600 lbs divided by .12 = 5000 lbs loaded trailer weight.

You will need to decide how much comfort zone is good for you. I can tell you, from experience, towing at or near max weight, is not a pleasant ride, even on a nice day. Windy days can be very unpleasant.

[PDX_Zs]

Gman22 wrote:
2006 Expy here as well w/ OEM tow group. LTs are a good move, with proper attention to hitching I think you'll have a good setup.

Ignore your fantasy tow rating and watch the 900 lb tongue weight limit and scale regular to stay within the 4100 lb. RAWR, that will get you first.

What are you towing? What sway control are you using? Thanks, eh!

[Gman22]

2006 Expy here as well w/ OEM tow group. LTs are a good move, with proper attention to hitching I think you'll have a good setup.

Ignore your fantasy tow rating and watch the 900 lb tongue weight limit and scale regular to stay within the 4100 lb. RAWR, that will get you first.

[Mickeyfan0805]

Spent a lot of time looking at Expeditions when we were entering the camping life. You likely have 1,400 pounds, or so, of payload available. This is probably your only area of concern. Without knowing exact weight of your family and dog, it is hard, but you could look at it something like this...

Available payload - 1,400
Family (if they are young, don't forget to given them room to grow) - 550
Large Dog with crate - 100
Misc books, gear and snacks - 50
WD hitch - 75
Tongue Weight (assuming roughly 6k loaded at 12.5%) - 750

This would put you overloaded by 125 pounds.

Now, there are some caveats:
-SOME of your tongue weight, if set up correctly, should be transferred to your TT tires, reducing the impact on the payload by 100 pounds or so
-You MAY have more than 1,400 pounds available, but likely not much
-Your family and/or dog weights may be lower than listed.

In other words, yes, it IS possible, and you can probably stay near, or just below, your GVWR. However, you will need to pack the Expedition very light, keep fluids in the trailer at a minimum, pack the trailer carefully, and watch your tongue weight diligently to do so. Only you can decide if that is a scenario with which you are comfortable.