RV Engineering and Construction

[ThomasFour]

I spent this afternoon repairing a canned-food storage drawer on our toy hauler. It was obviously loose and not sliding correctly. Yet again, I discovered the poor engineering and construction of RVs. Based on the design and dimensions of this drawer, a common person would find it appropriate for 8-10 canned goods. In taking it apart to diagnose the problem I discovered the metal drawer slide was hanging off the side of 1" piece of soft pine with three 5/16" screws holding the whole thing together. There is no way that design was likely to last for any purpose, much less in a 7,000lb trailer bouncing down the highway at 65mph. This is hardly an isolated instance and such "8th grade engineering" seems to be the norm regardless of brand. I am amazed at the astronomical difference in engineering/construction of the average automobile (for instance) when compared to RVs. Even residential construction standards FAR exceed the craftsmanship in RVs. Like everything, I'm sure its an issue that boils down to economics. But its hard to believe RV companies can't produce a well engineered product with quality construction and still be profitable. Am I missing something?

[westend]

For $20 or $30,000 what do you expect to get?

Screws long enough to hold the drawer slides together?

[Veebyes]

Basically you are going to get what you pay for. Don't expect $500,000 worth of fit & finish for $50,000. Not going to happen. What goes into those top end coaches takes time & skill.

Want to see some real fit & finish look at some top boat builders like Sabre or Outer Reef. No, Sea Ray is not a top builder. Not even anywhere close.

Yes, there is an awful lot of RV junk out there. For $20 or $30,000 what do you expect to get?

[ThomasFour]

2oldman wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
All one has to do is shop for the better built trailer.

And be willing to pay for it. That way you won't end up on here complaining about poor quality.

That's the whole point of this thread - prompting people to be more savvy consumers. No one walks into the Ford dealership and starts dismantling the showroom truck to make sure the steering linkage is sufficient and in line with the sticker price. Nor does anyone feel compelled to cut a hole in the wall of their perspective new residence to make sure it is properly insulated. The process of acquiring an RV seems different though. Based on problems cited throughout this thread, it would seem you have to remove drawers to inspect the framing, climb up on the roof with a garden hose and ensure it is actually waterproof, and wear appropriate clothing to climb underneath the rig to insure correct routing of all the gas lines.

ThomasFour wrote:
- but people should be aware of what they are typically getting for their money.

They aren't. Many people's "research" consists of finding the lowest price. What's that old saying...?

I would agree the marketplace will sort out the losers eventually, but nonetheless, manufacturers have some ethical responsibilities to the consumer.

[Cloud_Dancer]

I'm kinda like the Amish workers, in that I need to improve the "quality" of my research, before I purchase the RV. I actually worked long and hard doing my research (for the purpose of selecting my RV). But apparently, it wasn't good enough.

[2oldman]

goducks10 wrote:
All one has to do is shop for the better built trailer.

And be willing to pay for it. That way you won't end up on here complaining about poor quality.

ThomasFour wrote:
- but people should be aware of what they are typically getting for their money.

They aren't. Many people's "research" consists of finding the lowest price. What's that old saying...?

[eheading]

Regarding "bragging about Amish quality". As near as I can tell, just about every manufacturer in Indiana makes that claim. In visiting at least a half dozen Indiana manufacturers I never saw any Amishmen in the factory until I went to Newmar, which happens to be owned by a Mennonite family. At Newmar, the Amish all over everywhere in and around the factory. I thought this was very interesting.

Mind you, I am NOT saying there are no Amish individuals in the other factories, just that I personally have never seen them.


Ed Headington
2013 Newmar Ventana LE motorhome

[bucky]

Yet they brag of Amish built quality. They are probably paying the workers minimum wages with no benefits.

[ThomasFour]

Cloud Dancer wrote:
I'm always ready to jump in (threads about this subject).
But, I've realized that it's impossible to be fair to the manufacturers unless you're ready to write several pages,.....or a whole book, about this "quality" thing.
I will say this; I won't mention all the items that I had to fix, or modify, but I'm still in disbelief regarding the substandard design and construction of the supposedly "all fiberglass roof" on my Dutch Star. It took me a long time(still a few things left to do) to fix/modify this roof properly. I know a lot about this problem,...NOW. Apparently, so does the manufacturer (they changed the design a couple of years after mine was built).
Here's the thing to watch out for: members of these forums, like myself, usually write about these design deficiencies and substandard quality, on RVs that were built YEARS ago. Remember that many of us act as field testers for these products, and report back to the factory. Naturally, one would expect that the factories use this free information to improve their product. The catch is that it's up to the new customers to find out PRIOR to selecting which product to buy.

Well said! Maybe some constructive discontent can create change in the manufacturing and design of RVs. Forums like this may help educate potential buyers too. I can see how some of the issues I've uncovered in my RV could be innocent design errors or oversights during construction. However, some of the flaws are OBVIOUS intentional cost saving measures and/or willful employee negligence (both during the engineering phase and construction phase). I'm sure many people new to the RV world walk into a dealership with certain expectations based on experience with more common items such as automobiles, houses, etc. I guess that was the point of my original post - underneath all the polished exterior, shiny laminate, and beautiful wood veneer is often some very questionable construction. And, it is not engineered to last long. I still love RVing and - truth be told I actually like tinkering with my trailer - but people should be aware of what they are typically getting for their money.

[Lynnmor]

"RV Engineering and Construction" :h

I'm confused by the title of this thread. :?

[burlmart]

Cloud Dancer wrote:
I'm always ready to jump in (threads about this subject).
But, I've realized that it's impossible to be fair to the manufacturers unless you're ready to write several pages,.....or a whole book, about this "quality" thing.
I will say this; I won't mention all the items that I had to fix, or modify, but I'm still in disbelief regarding the substandard design and construction of the supposedly "all fiberglass roof" on my Dutch Star. It took me a long time(still a few things left to do) to fix/modify this roof properly. I know a lot about this problem,...NOW. Apparently, so does the manufacturer (they changed the design a couple of years after mine was built).
Here's the thing to watch out for: members of these forums, like myself, usually write about these design deficiencies and substandard quality, on RVs that were built YEARS ago. Remember that many of us act as field testers for these products, and report back to the factory. Naturally, one would expect that the factories use this free information to improve their product. The catch is that it's up to the new customers to find out PRIOR to selecting which product to buy.

i think RVIA is supposed to be the standards' bearer, but are they?

i recently had a blowout due to a set of defective laredo tires. my complaint to NHTSA resulted in a conversation w/ an engineer who was instead concerned w/ how propane lines were so unprotected and failed due to a blowout.

NHTSA was apparently unaware that RVIA existed

[westend]

I have a Starcraft that is 45 yrs old. It was built well but still used a lot of particle board and inferior fastening schedules. Probably the best things are the molded shower/tub stall, the fully clad floor system, and the full rail box frame. The torsion axles are a good suspension. The rest is gone and replaced with better materials.

[Joatha]

Its threads like this that remind me why I am glad I bought a Wanderlodge. Its 15 years old and built like a tank and will last well past my lifetime (and I'm 49).

Nothing but quality from top to bottom.

[Cloud_Dancer]

I'm always ready to jump in (threads about this subject).
But, I've realized that it's impossible to be fair to the manufacturers unless you're ready to write several pages,.....or a whole book, about this "quality" thing.
I will say this; I won't mention all the items that I had to fix, or modify, but I'm still in disbelief regarding the substandard design and construction of the supposedly "all fiberglass roof" on my Dutch Star. It took me a long time(still a few things left to do) to fix/modify this roof properly. I know a lot about this problem,...NOW. Apparently, so does the manufacturer (they changed the design a couple of years after mine was built).
Here's the thing to watch out for: members of these forums, like myself, usually write about these design deficiencies and substandard quality, on RVs that were built YEARS ago. Remember that many of us act as field testers for these products, and report back to the factory. Naturally, one would expect that the factories use this free information to improve their product. The catch is that it's up to the new customers to find out PRIOR to selecting which product to buy.

[jplante4]

This topic comes up here on regular basis and in fact there's a sister thread in the class A forum right now. Then there's the sister topic of "Why do these things cost so much?". It comes down to what Dodger said; most people buy an RV based on price alone and expect the manufacturer to trade cost for quality without passing the cost onto the customer. The airline industry has been dealing with this since deregulation. People pick a flight by price only. And because it actually cost many more times the $139 some airlines charge to fly from NY to Tampa, something has to be cut. Legroom, free baggage, overhead space etc.

If you shop by price only, you must expect less.

[goducks10]

All one has to do is shop for the better built trailer. Take the time to look at how the cabinets are made. We recently walked thru a new Redwood 5th wheel. I was surprised to see how cheap that the drawers were made. The sides of the drawers were so thin that 1/2 were slightly warped. This is on a $100,000+ 5th wheel.
On the lower end our Northwood Fox Mountain (I could buy 3 of them for the price of that Redwood) uses thicker plywood for the drawers. The front piece where the drawer front attaches to is 5/8" thick. I'd put cans in any of the drawers I have.
I did a mod to the large pantry door where I attached wire baskets to it to put pantry items. I put cans, boxes, bottles, etc. The door is rock solid.
The 1st thing I do when walking thru RVs is look at how they build the cabinets.
Jayco also builds some solid cabinets. Most others are built with minimum construction materials and technics.
If I find solid cabinets then there's a good chance the rest of the unit is better built. If a MFG cuts corners on something that's right in front of you then what corners are being cut where you can see them?