RV industry death spiral...

[laknox]

I'm greatly looking forward to this series of articles over the next couple of weeks:

http://rvdailyreport.com/opinion/opinion-the-rv-industry-death-spiral-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment...

Lyle

[run100]

We could spend an entire week discussing this topic around the campfire. My wife and I get frustrated with the lack of knowledge and training of employees in so many fields, we wonder if anyone has pride in what they do anymore. But, a lot of that is probably due to bouncing from job-to-job, and that can likely be traced back to low wages, or bad compensation plans.

When it comes to talking weights and specifications to customers, I can tell you from first hand experience, most people don't want to know the truth - even if they ask the question. Yes, there are some out there that choose safety over features, but (IMHO) they are in the minority. When I was in sales, there were many times customers got irritated (almost hostile) when I shared the hard facts with them. There's probably many on the forum that have experienced this same thing in their field. It can be very frustrating. I think people that visit this forum are the type of folks that do research and care about such things. Others just go buy the first rv that has the desired flash.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts and experiences.

[fj12ryder]

"The lack of, or non existent quality control is unexceptable, yet we continue to purchase these mass produced "cheese burgers!"

You state this, and in the next breath admit to being out shopping for a new RV. People buy what's out there because that's all there is. What are you going to do? Boycott the system for however long it takes to turn things around? 3 years? 5 years?

Sorry, but I want to go traveling.

[Steeljag]

This industry is in a very sad state of affairs ! The lack of, or non existent quality control is unexceptable, yet we continue to purchase these mass produced " cheese burgers" !

Sales personnel ? There seems to be trend in all sales of RVs, boats, cars, motorcycles, etc of not a sales professional, but a sales person who will be selling RVs today, cars last week, boats next week and video equipment at Best Buy next month !

We looked at a class A this past weekend with a "sales person" who really knew nothing of the chassis, tank sizes, AC BTUs, heat strips, satellite pre wiring, inverter, dual pane windows etc. like a little bird was " just there" and repeatedly asked if we would be buying today !

With a smile I asked if there was a sales person there who could "sell" today !

[ncrowley]

John & Angela wrote:

ncrowley wrote:
I think a BIG problem is the ignorance of RV sales people. They do not know what the weight ratings mean, what a residential refrigerator is, what can be towed safely, how the systems work, pros and cons of different units, etc, etc. I hope there are some knowledgeable ones out there, but I have not found one. People are basing decisions on what these salesman say (big mistake) and are getting inappropriate RVs for them. Rvs are much more complicated than cars and sales people should be trained.

Good afternoon. I appreciate what you are saying. It is certainly an industry wide challenge. I am a proffesional RV salesperson. The license I require to sell RVs certainly requires that I am competent in all aspects of weight requirements. However as you pointed out, knowledge of appliances and RV living in general is a knowledge base that is gained over time and not required by my license at least in my province. I would be interested in what you suggest as far as a course. Dealer level or maybe part of the license??? (Already expensive) It is a challenge. Not sure what the answer is.

I am not a big government person so I am not suggesting some kind of government requirement although that may be the only way since owners of places that sell RV are not properly selecting or training their sales people. Just last week, the sales person I talked to did not know what the various weight ratings meant. This is an industry problem. There is little concern for the consumer. Anything to make a sale. This gives all RV sales facilities very bad reputations.

[John___Angela]

free radical wrote:

bpounds wrote:
A license to sell RV's? Not the world I want to live in.

Doesnt every RV shop need busines licence to operate?

Im sure every RV has a manufacturers manual stating everything about it,weights, cog and all other details requirements and so on,,
Salesman doesnt need to learn much extra stuff just be honest and quote all that..

Good morning. It is not a business license. It is a license to sell vehicles of any type. Issued and regulated by the motor vehicle sales authority after taking a course and passing an exam covering but not limited to things like weight caculatikns and limits etc.

[Cloud_Dancer]

Yeah TPI, you said a mouthful. For sure the roof design, including how it attaches to the walls and the end caps, has been a very weak structure(against rain intrusion) in many RV models. Also, one of my pet peeves is the total design of the method of securing the air conditioners to the roof. There is NO design engineer that I've ever worked with that would consider sealing rain water around a 14 inch square hole by using a foam gasket between two non-rigid surfaces,... using 4 lag bolts which screw into cheap plywood that ROTS. (Of course the bolts are so cheap they easily rust). Rainwater comes in, and pools inside the styrofoam ceiling material, which has sheet brown paper bonded to it, which is glued to the roof trusses,.....etc,etc (I could write an 2 page article on the ramifications).
But, I'm going to bed.....:B
The short version is that it can ruin(total out) the entire RV.

[2gypsies1]

Take a look at these two comparisons of the production line at Jayco and that of Newmar. Newmar is a 'little' calmer and done with care.

Jayco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXMJrRQ3SVk

Newmar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYJpav7Sx5M

[free_radical]

bpounds wrote:
A license to sell RV's? Not the world I want to live in.

Doesnt every RV shop need busines licence to operate?

Im sure every RV has a manufacturers manual stating everything about it,weights, cog and all other details requirements and so on,,
Salesman doesnt need to learn much extra stuff just be honest and quote all that..

[Acdii]

RV Quality has never been great, except maybe for Airstreams. Back in 1973 we bought a Champion motor home. Quality, yeah, right. It had a Dodge chassis, and thats about it, the rest, well, not much different than what you see today. The Coleman I have is OK, but I found a few things that weren't so great, but, they build them light, and build them quick and on the cheap. Have to take care of it, keep it clean, keep it maintained, or it wont last long.

[bpounds]

A license to sell RV's? Not the world I want to live in.

[John___Angela]

ncrowley wrote:
I think a BIG problem is the ignorance of RV sales people. They do not know what the weight ratings mean, what a residential refrigerator is, what can be towed safely, how the systems work, pros and cons of different units, etc, etc. I hope there are some knowledgeable ones out there, but I have not found one. People are basing decisions on what these salesman say (big mistake) and are getting inappropriate RVs for them. Rvs are much more complicated than cars and sales people should be trained.

Good afternoon. I appreciate what you are saying. It is certainly an industry wide challenge. I am a proffesional RV salesperson. The license I require to sell RVs certainly requires that I am competent in all aspects of weight requirements. However as you pointed out, knowledge of appliances and RV living in general is a knowledge base that is gained over time and not required by my license at least in my province. I would be interested in what you suggest as far as a course. Dealer level or maybe part of the license??? (Already expensive) It is a challenge. Not sure what the answer is.

[ncrowley]

I think a BIG problem is the ignorance of RV sales people. They do not know what the weight ratings mean, what a residential refrigerator is, what can be towed safely, how the systems work, pros and cons of different units, etc, etc. I hope there are some knowledgeable ones out there, but I have not found one. People are basing decisions on what these salesman say (big mistake) and are getting inappropriate RVs for them. Rvs are much more complicated than cars and sales people should be trained.

[bogeygolfer]

Boy, you really summed it up very well, TPI.

[tpi]

I think part of the issue is the typical use pattern for RVs. In my storage lot there are numerous RVs which sit week after week with no usage. They could have been an impulse buy, or maybe they only intend to use it a couple weeks per year. It is just one of many facets of life, and maintenance is way down the priority scale.

Then take the typical construction of RVs. Fussy and maintenance intensive. I'm sure almost any RV could last a long long time with maintenance, rebuilds, whatever. But this isn't the typical ownership pattern to do that.

The typical owner would be well served by an RV with a roof designed to be relatively maintenance free, and building materials that don't rot easily. This type of production is not common, and would carry a cost premium.

Unfortunately many RVs are purchased for the qualities of big, flashy, and cheap. Ultimately this doesn't serve many owners well. Part of this is a manufacturing problem, part a consumer education problem. Perhaps expanding lemon law protections to RVs could be a small step in the right direction. Less incentive to manufacture clearly inferior designs or assembly practices. Consumers: Really research quality, and please make it an emphasis in your purchase decisions. It really is a more valuable commodity than big, flashy and cheap.